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illadvised
03-04-2003, 12:32 PM
My friend is going to be doing a report on these asian people. She lives in the bay, and was surprised that alot of other asian groups dont seem to know who they are. I lIve in the central valley and there is a huge Hmong population around here, (actually- theres alot of south east asians period). & I was wondering if this is true? :confused:

meia lua
03-04-2003, 12:59 PM
illadvised: there are probably MANY foreign populations that you probably do not notice my friend. But here's a little info on the Hmongs.

Hill Tribes

Under the national category of Laos fall many culturally distinct ethnic minorities, most of them migratory montagnards or hill tribes from the lush mountainous region. Most of these refugees came in the broad second wave of Southeast Asian resettlement in the early 1980s.

The Hmong are perhaps the best known of the hill tribes. A fiercely independent and proud people, they were the backbone of the CIA-trained guerrilla force in Laos -- and suffered for it. When the communist Pathet Lao took power in 1975, they began an extermination campaign against the Hmong that took the lives of an estimated 10 percent of the Hmong population.

The Mien, too, were caught in the crossfire of the Southeast Asian War. Some worked in the underground army. Most escaped to Thailand after 1975, a number eventually reaching the United States. Both the Hmong and Mien are originally from southern China and over the past few centuries had migrated south.

The Kmhmu, another Laotian hill tribe which numbers 300 in the state, are said to be the indigenous people of Laos. Their history in that country, however, is a history of oppression. For centuries, they were treated as a kind of slave class.

For many of the Hmong, Mien, Kmhmu, and other hill tribes, cultural adaptation is not simply a matter of learning English, but requires an anthropological leap. In Asia, they typically slashed and burned jungle growth to clear land for planting -- the oldest agricultural method in the world. The village was their most complex social institution. Isolated in highland regions, these settlements were without electricity or roads. Several of the tribes didn't have a written language until 20 or 30 years ago.

Hill tribes form associations based on clans and religious practices, including animist sects, which reflect the traditional belief in a world of spirits. Shamans serve as intermediaries between the natural and the supernatural. Community organizations run the gamut from soccer teams to mutual assistance groups and meal programs for the elderly.

More than 150,000 Hmong refugees have settled in the United States since the 1970s. With farming expertise and few English skills, many flocked (*I hate it when they use the word flock when referring to immigrants....)to agricultural communities in Minnesota, California and North and South Carolina.

An estimated 60,000 Hmong live in California's San Joaquin Valley -- the largest concentration outside of Asia. Hmong farmers there produce about 90 percent of Fresno County's strawberry and cherry tomato crop, said Chukou Thao, who directs a Hmong cooperative that helps farmers market their products.

Sethius
03-04-2003, 12:59 PM
Hmong girls. I talked to a few. And they all seem less than 5 feet tall and wear platform shoes. They have a 'peanuty' voice (that's the best I can describe it). But maybe I'm just stereotyping...

Zaius
03-04-2003, 12:59 PM
on the subject.... where are hmong people from?

Zaius
03-04-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Zaius
on the subject.... where are hmong people from?


dang, late on the draw....

Zaius
03-04-2003, 01:00 PM
what the hell? how did this thread change?

illadvised
03-04-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by 12XU
My friend is going to be doing a report on these irish people. She lives in the bay, and was surprised that alot of other european groups dont seem to know who they are. I live in the central valley and there is a huge Irish population around here, (actually- theres alot of celtic peoples period). & I was wondering if this is true?

Nope, not gonna apologize for this thread. If your so uptight, that's your own problem.

03-04-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Zaius
what the hell? how did this thread change?

Big Brother is watching over us.

illadvised
03-04-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by 12XU
My friend is going to be doing a report on these irish people. She lives in the bay, and was surprised that alot of other european groups dont seem to know who they are. I live in the central valley and there is a huge Irish population around here, (actually- theres alot of celtic peoples period). & I was wondering if this is true?:confused:

and Im not european.

03-04-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by illadvised


and Im not european.

Are you South Pacific?

daft_crunk
03-04-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Ü߀R


Big Brother is watching over us.

no my friend..eric nakamura is watching over us

03-04-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by daft_crunk


no my friend..eric nakamura is watching over us

He is my older brother...

illadvised
03-04-2003, 01:11 PM
No... Im spanish.. Maybe since Im not asian I tread to hard when I dont mean to. But, I kinda get the point. If people speak to me to some other latin language, I usually laugh about it. But I dont go off the deep end..

03-04-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by illadvised
No... Im spanish.. Maybe since Im not asian I tread to hard when I dont mean to. But, I kinda get the point. If people speak to me to some other latin language, I usually laugh about it. But I dont go off the deep end..

I have been yeeled at by Hispanic grandmothers for not being able to speak spanish. I have no Latin/Hispanic blood in me whatsoever. But with a beard I look like I'm straight out of Mexico.

meia lua
03-04-2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by illadvised


Nope, not gonna apologize for this thread. If your so uptight, that's your own problem.

I'm from SE Asia, but that doesn't mean I know of every cultural population which exists. It's alright, man. Chill.

fauve-io
03-04-2003, 01:17 PM
i had a roommate who is hmong.

he says there is a large community in Stockton CA, his hometown.

he used to show me some hmong rock and roll bands and hang glossy, glamorous hmong pop idol posters on the wall much to my chagrin, j/k

phism
03-04-2003, 01:23 PM
i know a hmong girl... she teaches english in kansas... she's a hip chick.

illadvised
03-04-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Ü߀R


I have been yeeled at by Hispanic grandmothers for not being able to speak spanish. I have no Latin/Hispanic blood in me whatsoever. But with a beard I look like I'm straight out of Mexico.

Im Not Mexican.. Im Spanish!!! Spanish American???? Spanglish??? You speak english??? Just Kidding...:p

illadvised
03-04-2003, 01:26 PM
fauve-io I like you avatar.... I remeber that band

angrykitty
03-04-2003, 01:28 PM
isn't spain in europe?

Miso
03-04-2003, 01:30 PM
Hmong people defined in dictionary.com

Hmong ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hmông)
n. pl. Hmong or Hmongs In both senses also called Miao.

A member of a people inhabiting the mountainous regions of southern China and adjacent areas of Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand.

The Miao-Yao language of the Hmong.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Hmong

phism
03-04-2003, 01:45 PM
i would feel bad ever dating, or at least marrying, anyone of a race that is... endangered, if you will.... even native americans.... just because i don't want to aid in that slow genocide =/

ocd
03-04-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by phism
i would feel bad ever dating, or at least marrying, anyone of a race that is... endangered, if you will.... even native americans.... just because i don't want to aid in that slow genocide =/ My dad's Native. One way you could look at it is "infiltrating whitey", if you want to be like that. I just look at it as my parents fell in love w/ eachother.

There's a pretty big Hmong population here in Spokane.

12XU
03-04-2003, 02:06 PM
illadvised, I wasn't trying to wind you up. I just have an odd sense of humor. ;)

Edited to add that I'm also just giddy that Shamrock Shakes are back in season.

illadvised
03-04-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Den


an old friend is marrying a Kmhmu girl from Richmond....

great post meia lua. infromative.

my finace is Kmhmu.. there are alot of them in Stockton, ca.

Foehammer
03-04-2003, 02:23 PM
Oh Phism, what part of Kansas?
since I live there (unfortunately)

shawgirl74
03-05-2003, 06:37 AM
my Laotian friends call each other Hmongs to insult each other.

There is a large Hmong population in Minnesota. I guess during and after the Vietnam war churches have sponsored families to come over here. My best friend spent time in Minneapolis that way, then came with a bunch of families to Ohio. We have a large Lao poplation here...

shawgirl74
03-05-2003, 09:15 AM
tadao, that is the case here too. no violence, just jokes. and my Lao friends are too busy fighting the Cambodian population here to worry about the white people haha. it really isnt' funny, there are a lot of problems between the Lao and Cambodian gangs, i'm surprised no one has been killed yet. the whole thing is STUPID.

shawgirl74
03-05-2003, 09:40 AM
2nd generation have lots of problems here. only a few make it through high school. some of the reason is because, with the people i know, is because the parents couldn't find good jobs unless they depended on the church that brought them here-- they didn't want to. their parents (1st gen) don't speak English, most are 'uneducated', and honestly afraid to lose their culture. the kids have to help make money for the family--since they don't finish high school, sometimes elementary/middle school, they are left to try and get money the 'easy' way. some of the second generation have made it, which is great, and most of them want to give back to their community, which i think eventually will help some of the problems within it.

aww, i need some home cookin! enjoy!

Robocon^^
03-05-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by phism
i would feel bad ever dating, or at least marrying, anyone of a race that is... endangered, if you will.... even native americans.... just because i don't want to aid in that slow genocide =/

A friend Xue back when I was in college in St Louis was one of the top art scholarship recipients. She was from Kansas City and had a midwest accent. Her family pressured her into marrying a husband of their choice, but it ended in divorce a few years later.

Last I heard she was travelling between Atlanta and Texas. I'm stoked she didn't stay under the pressure of her family's wishes. She's way too free thinking, independent. But she had good fodder for art pieces.

phism
03-05-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Foehammer
Oh Phism, what part of Kansas?
since I live there (unfortunately)

piper... a suburb of kansas city kansas.... i'm in kc on the missouri side. well, at mu right now.

phism
03-05-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Den


marry a nice Samoan girl then?

or somebody that's already mixed like me. so far i've only fallen in love with mixed girls anyway, strangely.

i also don't mean that statement as that i wouldn't date someone of a small minority like that, it would just be on my mind sometimes... love conquers all, of course. but i'd still feel weird if i thought that someday there'd be no pure-blooded people of that race left. isn't that what they say about hawai'ians these days?

Margin Walker
02-28-2004, 05:33 PM
*bump*
Originally posted by shawgirl74
There is a large Hmong population in Minnesota. I guess during and after the Vietnam war churches have sponsored families to come over here.
Yep. That's what happened w/ Mimi Nguyen (http://www.worsethanqueer.com/), but I think she's Vietnamese.

But anyways, there's a bunch of Hmong here in WI as well. Roughly 20%-30% of the farmers at the Farmer's Market are Hmong farmers. But the general concensus is that the Hmong mostly keep to themselves, which suits everyone else just fine. A lot of people don't care for them (I've seen "Wisconsin: You're Hmong Friends" bumperstickers). Not to justify the dislike/hatred, but I've seen newspaper articles of Hmong guys bringing their (arranged marriage) wife back to the house by force and beatin' her ass. Also, every time I went to the arcade in College, I always saw Hmong kids playing hooky during school hours. I don't mean to be pointing fingers or tell 'em how to live their life, but man....

cabbagechild
02-28-2004, 05:37 PM
u know mimi?

Margin Walker
11-24-2004, 09:36 AM
*bump*

Because of the Chai Vang business and all of the ignorant shit around it.

slackerbot
11-24-2004, 09:39 AM
yeah. prior to this Chai Vang incident, i've never heard of Hmong. it's not such a small world afterall.

slackerbot
11-24-2004, 10:03 AM
word.

Sukebe
11-25-2004, 06:56 AM
We were talking about that shit at work. Why did the fucker have to use an SKS? Asshole. Welcome back, AWB. Why couldn't this have happened during blackpowder season?

04-20-2005, 08:22 AM
http://www.jefflindsay.com/Hmong_tragedy.html

kamenriderv3
06-09-2005, 01:05 PM
BANGKOK (Reuters) - Up to 4,000 ethnic Hmong, remnants of a U.S.-backed anti-communist guerrilla army in the Laotian jungles during the Vietnam War, are ready to surrender after 30 years on the run, a U.S. activist said on Thursday.

Ex-California police officer Ed Szendrey, who was detained at the weekend by the Laotian communist government for helping 173 women, children and elderly people give themselves up, said many more Hmong were waiting to come in from the cold.

"We've had indications that there are nearly three to four thousand ready to surrender," Szendrey told a news conference in the Thai capital after his deportation from the landlocked southeast Asian nation as a "trouble-maker."

Human rights groups and Hmong refugees say the Pathet Lao communists, who seized power in Laos in 1975 in the closing stages of the Vietnam War, have prosecuted a war for decades against the Hmong as punishment for their alliance with the United States

the rest of the article at http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050609/ts_nm/laos_refugees_dc/nc:731;_ylt=AlLCglekMl70_18JrN.yxWYBxg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Margin Walker
06-09-2005, 03:01 PM
I would've put this in the Chai Vang thread, but Iago (or whomever) deleted it. Two bits of news:

1) Chai Vang's request for "change of venue" has been denied (http://www.allguinness.com/steamedrice/cat_the_chai_vang_case.html).
2) The prosecutor for the case is none other than Wisconsin Attorney General Pam "drinkin' & drivin'" Lautenschlaeger.

grandpa_shig
06-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Tadao
I have a good sized Hmong and Laotian population per capa here if far Northern California. They kinda don't get along. Kinda like Lodka and Simka on the show Taxi. Jokes about the mountain people and what not. They don't fight each other though. Thiers too much hate from the white people here to even bother with fighting each other. It made huge news when the first Hmong made it as a poiceman here. Sadly, the story faded and I don't even know if he's still around.

hmong new year in fresno is the jump off! i dont know if youre native, tadao, but there has been a sizable hmong population in the central valley for quite some time now. it was worse back when i was young cuz most the SE asian immigrants take up farm labor work and most the crackers around town would call strawberries "hmong berries". shit got real around the mid 80s though with a lot of gang problems popping off. there was also a few problems surrounding faith as most americans are ignorant to other cultures' religious practices.

taylor
06-11-2005, 10:44 PM
I'm Hmong. Although I grew up in Nebraska... and moved to California about 2 years ago.

The states with the largest concentration of Hmong is in Minnesota, California and Wisconsin. But basically we're everywhere. There's even Hmong who live in Alaska now...

Hmong New Year Celebrations are pretty cool. The biggest one is in Fresno CA. Girls and Guys dress up in their bright traditional clothes and court each other the traditional way by ball throwing. It's basically a meat market. You can buy all the Hmong translated Chinese and Korean movies you want. And all the Hmong produced movies and music. And plus there's killer papaya salad and Beauty Pagent to boot. :)

stinky
09-16-2005, 09:01 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1134299

Hmong convicted of killing Wisconsin hunters

HAYWARD, Wisconsin (Reuters) - A Laotian immigrant was convicted on Friday of shooting to death six hunters, after the jury rejected his claim he fired after being shot at and that a racist tirade made him fear for his life.

Chai Soua Vang, a 36-year-old truck driver who is a member of St. Paul, Minnesota's Hmong minority community, faces an automatic sentence of six life terms in prison after the all-white jury found him guilty of six counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder after three hours of deliberations.

Vang, who was 11 when he and his Laotian family immigrated from a Thai refugee camp, appeared resigned and showed little emotion as the verdict was announced in the Sawyer County courtroom.

Vang testified that one of the white hunters who confronted him November 21 on private land shot at Vang first and he fired back in self-defense.

He recounted running after the other hunters as they tried to flee, shooting some in the back, because he thought they were going for their guns. He ambushed two others from the all-white hunting party — including a woman — who arrived on the scene on an all-terrain vehicle.

"I did what I had to do to defend myself," Vang testified on Thursday. He said he had been in the National Guard in California, and was an experienced hunter.

Two other hunters who were wounded by Vang testified it was Vang who fired first after being scolded by one of the owners of the land and told to stay off private property. Vang was discovered in a tree stand, used as a perch to hunt deer.

"He was called names and that's wrong, but it's not unlawful. It did not interfere with his person," said Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager, who helped prosecute the case.

According to a document filed with the court by investigators, at least one hunter called Vang a "gook, chink, fucking Asian."

Lautenschlager said: "Mr. Vang was not attacked. He was angry, and rightfully so. The defendant had no actual belief he was in imminent danger of death or bodily harm, not when he chased down all the victims."

09-17-2005, 05:15 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/16/hunters.shot.ap/index.html

09-17-2005, 05:18 AM
"Cross-examined by Lautenschlager, Vang was asked if each victim deserved to die. Vang answered "no" in some cases and "yes" in others."

09-17-2005, 05:22 AM
other thread is gone huh?

stinky
09-17-2005, 11:22 AM
yeah that thread went bye bye. was this a fair trial? 12 white jurors as his peers.

Margin Walker
09-17-2005, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
other thread is gone huh?
Yeah, both the Chai Vang thread and the Lynne Stewart (http://www.lynnestewart.org/) thread were deleted for some reason. As far as the jury is concerned, they picked 14 person jury (2 alternates), all shipped north from Dane County (home of what's affectionatly called "The People's Republic of Madison"). I suppose you could state that he got an unfair trial because the jury was all white, but the fact remains that they picked the jurors out by sending out 450 questionairres to potential jurors. So not only did they send out questionairres to a notoriously Liberal area of the state, they weeded out any potential jurors that had any racist or pre-concieved notions about Vang or his ethnicity.

And then there's the matter of Peg Lautenschlaeger--the Attorney General of the state of Wisconsin. If the Attorney General takes time out of his/her schedule to travel to bumblefuck nowhere, WI to personally prosecute your case, it's a pretty safe bet that you're up shit creek without a paddle.

And lastly, there's the facts of the case: Vang shot at 9 men (only one of whom was armed at the time), killed 6 of them, & wounded 3 more--including the fact that he shot 4 of the unarmed hunters in the back. The man was a wife-beater and a habitual tresspasser (Don't believe me? Look up "Vang, Chai Soua" & "Birthdate: 09/24/1968" on CCAP (http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl) and his judgment for 'Tresspassing' in Green Lake County will pop-up). Oh yeah, and here's a guy that shot a bunch of unarmed people. I'm sorry, but gettin' all Columbine on a bunch of people when 1) you were clearly in the wrong and 2) even if they yelled a bunch of racist shit at you, that ain't right. I have absolutly no pity for the man. Instead, I'll save it for the thousands of other Hmong that are gonna be harrassed and be treated like shit because of him. Fuck racism, fuck the hunters for acting like a bunch of shit-headed rednecks and fuck Chai Vang. :mad:

will
09-18-2005, 05:19 PM
^^
well said.

beanie
09-18-2005, 10:55 PM
{Dale} ok ok so are hmong people chinese or japanese? {/Dale}

GONG_LORD
09-19-2005, 03:20 PM
Fuck Chai Vang.

I hope that shit burns in prison.

kamenriderv3
11-08-2005, 01:16 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051108/ap_on_re_us/hunters_shot;_ylt=AhGsJo.QklzBN0LPlIHeZDus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

he gets six life terms

11-08-2005, 05:51 PM
I fucked one of those hmongers once...they give great head...snatch was a little dry.

11-09-2005, 04:55 AM
your posts disgust me.

but just so you know,

if the female partner isn't aroused,

that's your fault.

Kyo003
11-09-2005, 11:26 AM
I used to have a crush on a Hmong girl I shared a class with in middle school.

I also farted in front of her, so that was out the window.

herrokitty
11-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Kyo003
I used to have a crush on a Hmong girl I shared a class with in middle school.

I also farted in front of her, so that was out the window.
I farted on this girl that I used to have a crush on. two seperate girls, actually.
if you fart, and she flees. then it was never meant to be.

Kyo003
11-09-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by herrokitty

I farted on this girl that I used to have a crush on. two seperate girls, actually.
if you fart, and she flees. then it was never meant to be.

But if you toot and she comes back, she's yours.

herrokitty
11-09-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Kyo003


But if you toot and she comes back, she's yours. one of them did not flee, lucky for both of us <3<3<3

Kyo003
11-09-2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by herrokitty
one of them did not flee, lucky for both of us <3<3<3

Woot!

Margin Walker
06-05-2007, 11:37 AM
Man, 2007 is shaping up to be a really shitty year for the Hmong community here in Wisconsin. First, a Hmong hunter was shot in Peshtigo by a white guy, then a UW Law professor supposedly dissed the Hmong community in one of his classes and now this shit-storm (http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=153615). Now I'm glad that I'm leaving because this is going to get fuckin' ugly.

"School Board to revisit school name"

"The arrests in California Monday of Gen. Vang Pao and eight others for plotting to topple the communist government of Laos sent shock waves through last night's Madison school board meeting and threw into doubt whether the decision to name the city's newest elementary school for Vang Pao will hold.

School Board President Arlene Silveira said the board would begin gathering more information today, seek legal advice and go from there.

The criminal charges added fuel to an already furious debate that has raged since April 9 when the board voted unanimously to name the school for Vang Pao, who is revered by many in the local Hmong community as a civilian and military leader.

The news of the arrests came as a surprise to both supporters of the Vang Pao name and opponents; both groups were in attendance at Monday's meeting. Many of the opponents of the name carried signs that called Vang Pao a 'war criminal' and 'killer.'

Parent Heidi Reynolds, one of the organizers of a petition that gathered 500 signatures opposing using Vang Pao's name, has been emphatically opposed to the Vang Pao name. She said, "Please, do the right thing and open this back up."

Supporters of the name, including brothers Chuck and Henry Yang and former school board member Bill Keys, said the charges against Vang Pao were a total surprise to them and that they would have to wait for more information before commenting.

Koua Vang, a local attorney, also said the arrests came as a surprise but that the news that Vang Pao continues to fight the communists in Laos is not.

In an interview, Vang said "Gen. Vang Pao does not forget the communists who continue to imprison and torture his people. If people are willing to fight against evil, that's not a bad thing. I think he would not be sad to be accused of that."

Groundbreaking on Vang Pao Elementary on Madison's far west side took place less than two weeks ago"

joetron2030
06-05-2007, 11:43 AM
He's still fighting the communists! You'd think people would be all for naming a school after the General.

Is there a sizable Hmong community in Madison? There must be if there was enough support to name a new public school after this guy.

650lex
06-05-2007, 11:45 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/05/MNG44Q7OS41.DTL



10 men accused of plotting coup in Laos
Hmong exiles in state, retired U.S. colonel allegedly raised money to buy, export arms

Tuesday, June 5, 2007

(06-05) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- Echoes of the war in Southeast Asia rolled through a federal courtroom here Monday as a group of Laotian men and a retired U.S. Army officer who served during the Vietnam War were accused of raising thousands of dollars to mount a coup to overthrow the communist government of Laos.

A prominent Laotian exile leader enlisted by the CIA to fight the communists during the war was among the 10 men accused of violating the federal Neutrality Act by lining up mercenary forces and trying to buy high-powered military equipment for an insurrection against the Laotian government.

The equipment, some of which had already been purchased, included shoulder-fired Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, machine guns and land mines, according to a criminal complaint filed in federal court.

The arsenal was to be used against both military and civilian officials of Laos, including an attack on the nation's capital intended to reduce government targets to rubble, federal authorities said.

The men were arrested in raids across the state Monday after the operation was infiltrated by an undercover agent from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, according to a criminal complaint filled with references to safe houses, wiretaps and CIA secrets.

"The enormity of the crimes is beyond anything I've encountered," Assistant U.S. Attorney Bob Twiss told U.S. Magistrate Judge Kimberly Mueller during a court hearing. "The defendants conspired to murder thousands of people."

The case is an explosive one for the estimated 65,000 ethnic Hmong in California, because of the arrest of 77-year-old Vang Pao of Westminster (Orange County), perhaps the most prominent Hmong exile in the country.

Pao was a general under the former Laotian government who came to the United States in 1975. He led Hmong tribesmen during the Vietnam War, when members of the ethnic group were recruited and trained by the CIA to fight communist forces.

The criminal complaint identifies him as the head of the Neo Hom, a movement opposing the Laotian government.

Also arrested was Harrison Ulrich Jack, 60, of Woodland (Yolo County), described by the government as a former Army officer who was stationed for a time in Southeast Asia before leaving active duty in 1977.

He later served in the California National Guard and retired as a lieutenant colonel, the complaint says.

The complaint says Jack was hired by the other men, who are of Hmong ancestry, because of his "contacts in the American defense, homeland security and defense contractor community."

Jack has been an adjunct professor with Golden Gate University for 15 years. Yolo County officials say they hired him in March as an ombudsman to help county employees with workplace issues.

Eight of the 10 men who were arrested appeared in court Monday.

Pao, wearing heavy dark glasses, sat quietly until acknowledging acceptance of his court-appointed attorney.

At one point, Jack turned and winked at his wife in the audience.

All the men are being held without bail and are due back in court today. None has been charged. Federal prosecutors have 10 days to file charges or obtain a grand jury indictment.

Attorneys for Jack and Pao declined to comment Monday.

Mark Reichel, a Sacramento attorney appointed to represent Lo Cha Thao, a 34-year-old Clovis resident who did not appear in court, said he had not yet spoken to his client but had some initial concerns about the case.

"Most people in their lifetime never have to suffer the way these people suffered in their homeland," Reichel said. "It may be the case that they have thoughts of returning, and it may also be the case that law enforcement pushed them further than they would have gone just with their own feelings."

Other defendants include Lo Thao, 53, of Stockton, president of the nonprofit United Hmong International; Youa True Vang, 60, of Sanger (Fresno County), founder of a group called Hmong International New Year; and Hue Vang, 39, a police officer in Clovis from 1989 to 1999 who directs the Fresno-based United Lao Council for Peace, Freedom and Reconstruction.

Also arrested were Chong Yang Thao, 53, of Fresno; Seng Vue, 68, of Fresno; Chue Lo, 59, of Stockton; and Nhia Kao Vang, 48, of Rancho Cordova.

The criminal complaint included an account from the unidentified federal undercover agent, who wrote that seven of the men had formed a committee to look at the possibility of overthrowing the Laotian government while operating within the "general scope" of Pao's Neo Hom movement.

The agent said he had been tipped off by a defense contractor who had spoken to Jack about weapons.

The men allegedly raised money to buy AK-47s and other automatic weapons, Stinger missiles, anti-tank rockets, Claymore mines, C-4 explosives, ammunition, night-vision goggles and other equipment.

As of last month, the group had agents in the Laotian capital of Vientiane and had drawn up plans for a military strike there, the complaint says.

"The defendants have issued instructions that the mercenary force is to destroy ... government facilities, to reduce them to rubble, and make them look like the results of the attack upon the World Trade Center in New York on Sept. 11, 2001," the complaint says.

The undercover agent said he first spoke with Jack in late January. On Feb. 7, he said, he had a face-to-face meeting with Jack, Pao and 10 others at a Sacramento restaurant, where the subject was the purchase of weapons.

The agent said he was shown "several maps of Laos, showing locations purported to be Lao government military positions and insurgent forces positions." The agent also said he allowed the men to inspect samples of weapons, including AK-47s, rockets and mines.

During one conversation, the agent wrote, Jack quoted Lo Cha Thao as saying that "the CIA was preparing to assist the Hmong insurgency once the takeover of Laos had begun."

On Feb. 15, the complaint says, Jack told the agent he had met with nearly two dozen of his clients and had budgeted for the purchase of weapons.

"The cost of the entire list which had been provided was approximately $9.8 million," the complaint says.

The men had paid $100,000 for an initial installment of 125 machine guns, 20,000 rounds of ammunition and smoke grenades that were to be delivered June 12 to a safe house in Bangkok, the complaint says. A second installment of weapons, including Stinger missiles, was to be delivered to a remote location in Thailand on June 19, the complaint says.

McGregor Scott, the U.S. attorney for the eastern district of California, noted that while the United States and Laotian communists were once enemies, the two governments now have normal relations.

"This is the legitimate government of Laos," he said. "It is a country with which we are at peace, and our laws say that you cannot do what these men attempted to do."

Jack's neighbors were stunned upon hearing the news about his arrest.

"I would say it's shocking to say the least, especially in a small town like Woodland. ... This just seems too Tom Clancy-ish to me," said Ryan Hermle, 30.

fmstlr
06-05-2007, 11:45 AM
wait til the new Rambo movie comes out, all south east asians will be lumped together once again for a hate fest.

Margin Walker
06-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by joetron2030
He's still fighting the communists! You'd think people would be all for naming a school after the General.
It depends who you ask. For the Hmong people, General Vang Pao is a hero and (quite literally) a lifesaver. Those against naming the school after the guy accuse the General of a lot of nasty shit like running heroin, torturing people and executing people without a trial. You can read about the fight to name the school after the General on Asian Wisconzine's website (http://www.asianwisconzine.com/0607MMSDVangPaoSchool.html).

And yes, there are a lot of Hmong in the Madison/Dane County area. Perhaps not as many as in Sheboygan or La Crosse, but they're still a sizable population in the area. For example, between a 1/4 to 1/3 of the vendors at local farmer's markets are Hmong farmers. So they're here, they're just not very visible.

ghostdog75
06-05-2007, 12:38 PM
There's a fungus Hmong us.

joetron2030
06-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Margin Walker

It depends who you ask. For the Hmong people, General Vang Pao is a hero and (quite literally) a lifesaver. Those against naming the school after the guy accuse the General of a lot of nasty shit like running heroin, torturing people and executing people without a trial. You can read about the fight to name the school after the General on Asian Wisconzine's website (http://www.asianwisconzine.com/0607MMSDVangPaoSchool.html).

And yes, there are a lot of Hmong in the Madison/Dane County area. Perhaps not as many as in Sheboygan or La Crosse, but they're still a sizable population in the area. For example, between a 1/4 to 1/3 of the vendors at local farmer's markets are Hmong farmers. So they're here, they're just not very visible.
Ah. Thanks for the info and link.

I wonder how that population compares to St. Paul. I've heard that St. Paul has the largest or 2nd largest in the US.

But, I'm not sure if that's still the case or not.

adoyzie
06-05-2007, 11:11 PM
Isn't this why we name structures after people have died, so that their legacy isn't still being written and marred by silly coups and what not.

The only exception to this rule is if you're a kajillionaire and you paid for said structure, at which time you can have every latrine with your name plate on it.

Margin Walker
06-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Anyways, here's a quick update:
1) More people have been charged, making it 11 people total that are accused of international conspiracy.
2) Tomorrow (6/18) the local School Board is reviewing whether to keep the name Vang Pao Elementary School. Even though the board voted unanimously to name the school after the General, odds aren't too high that the name will stick. Which will mean the Hmong will be personally offended because, despite the fact that they could name it after another Hmong hero, they only want the school named after only one Hmong hero: General Vang Pao. Like I said, this is gonna get nasty....

Margin Walker
07-18-2007, 09:49 AM
Here's even more fucked up shit:

1) Hmong woman accused of killing her 6 week old child (http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8560772.html)
2) A Hmong student @ UW Green Bay has been missing since July 12th (http://www.uwgb.edu/univcomm/news/missing.htm)

hmm
07-19-2007, 03:27 PM
On a positive note, the new World Series of Poker Champion is Hmong.....$8.2 million.

taylor
07-24-2007, 11:59 AM
The top 3 well known Hmong in America

1) Chai Vang - for killing white Hunters in Wisconsin

2) Vang Pao - Former General accused of plotting to over throw the Laotion government

3) Jerry Yang (not founder of Yahoo)- World Series Poker Champion

TeaD
07-26-2007, 07:19 AM
There are some Hmong kids at the school I used to teach at.

When I told one of the boys that I collected Hmong textiles he was very happy and asked me how I started that hobby.

TeaD

will
07-26-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by taylor
The top 3 well known Hmong in America

1) Chai Vang - for killing white Hunters in Wisconsin

2) Vang Pao - Former General accused of plotting to over throw the Laotion government

3) Jerry Yang (not founder of Yahoo)- World Series Poker Champion

Hats off..

taylor
08-16-2007, 11:23 AM
Hunted Like Animals
REBECCA SOMMER
Press Release
JANUARY 2007: “Hunted like Animals” is a documentary about the on-going genocide on the Hmong people, running and hiding from Laotian military aggressions in the remote mountainous regions of Laos. Many Hmong, who fought as CIA soldiers during the Secret War, retreated into the inaccessible mountains of Laos after the U.S. pulled out in 1975. They became targets of persecution and retaliation due to their role in the Vietnam War. While most Lao-Hmong are integrated into their country and many Hmong surrendered and continue to come out of the jungle to this day, there are disturbing reports of transgressions by the Lao PDR authorities towards those still in hiding. Over thirty years and a generation later the Hmong-in-hiding are attacked, chased, raped and killed by Laotian soldiers. Those who surrender face an uncertain fate. “Hunted like Animals”demonstrates that the Hmong-in-hiding in the Laotian military training areas are going through. They endure genocide, the reason why many escape to Thailand, and become refugees. This story of human rights violations on the Hmong-in-hiding must be told.

Filmmaker Rebecca Sommer traveled in 2005 and 2006 to the Hmong refugee camp Ban Huay Nam Khao, Petchabun, in Thailand, focusing on the Hmong Lao who fled military aggressions in Laos. The testimonies of the Hmong refugees, and footages filmed by the Hmong-in-hiding themselves inside of Laos, are interwoven into the documentary like a tapestry, revealing the human face behind the shocking human rights violations in the remote mountains of Laos, where the Hmong are Hunted like Animals.

For DVDs of the film, please email document.write: [email protected]



http://rebeccasommer.org/documentaries/Hmong/unfinished-war.jpg

Warning Very Graphic Images!! Not for Children!!

Film clips on Rebecca Sommer's website:

http://rebeccasommer.org/documentaries/Hmong/index.php

Film clips on youtube:

Eye Witness Account and filmed attack
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mJHerGolvR0

Hmong hunted and tortured... Merciless
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LmSWXk1nFRc

Hmong attacked with Chemical Weapons
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YI5Svn29WgI

Hmong Refugees - We are not rebels
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VtW08-HrGPI

Hmong woman before she escaped
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EJnUaH6_-cc

Hmong Gang Raped by Lao Soldiers
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z1xngfvVN6k

Thai Military interview Hmong refugee
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FS2JOGTd2OU

taylor
08-16-2007, 11:59 AM
"Hunted like Animals" explains the History of the Hmong involvement in the Lao War including clip of infamous General Vang Pao:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8YFiEXxi7M&NR=1

taylor
08-31-2007, 11:02 AM
http://presszoom.com/story_140477.html

Laos, Thailand Crisis: US Congressional Forum To Discuss Emergency Plight of Lao and Hmong Refugees, Ethnic Cleansing and Increased Killings by Communist Lao Military Regime

(PressZoom) - A special session of the U.S. Congressional Forum on Laos will be held in the U.S. Senate, ( Dirksen SOB, U.S. Congress, Washington, D.C. 20510 ) , from 9:00 A.M.-12:00 P.M. on Thursday, August 30, 2007 to discuss the plight of some 8,000 Lao-Hmong political refugees and asylum seekers facing possible forced repatriation from Ban Huay Nam Khao, and Nong Khai, Thailand back to the Communist regime in Laos that they fled.

Topics will also include discussion of a potential legislative action in the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate aimed at punitive U.S. economic and trade sanctions against the Lao regime for its recent political and religious persecution, mass starvation and killing of thousands of innocent and unarmed Lao and Hmong dissidents and opposition group members as documented by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and others.

“Clearly, the U.S. Congress—both House and Senate—are moving rapidly and will likely take further action to seek to address the emergency crisis facing the Lao-Hmong refugees and asylum seekers at Ban Huay Nam Khao, Nong Khai and elsewhere in Thailand and Laos,” stated Philip Smith, Executive Director of the Center for Public Policy Analysis in Washington, D.C. “The ongoing persecution, mass starvation and killing of unarmed Lao and Hmong civilians and political and religious dissidents by the Lao regime as documented by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Crosswalk, and others has raised serious concerns and the U.S. Congress is likely to move to seek to address these horrific acts of ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and religious persecution,” he continued.

The Forum will also discuss pending new potential legislation in the U.S. House and U.S. Senate seeking to appeal directly to His Majesty Bhumibol Adulyadej, the King of Thailand, and General Surayud Chulanont, Prime Minister of Thailand, to intervene to help stop the forced or involuntary repatriation of these 8,000 Lao-Hmong refugees. The pending legislation and forthcoming follow-on U.S. Congressional letters will also likely appeal to, and urge, Thai Supreme Commander Boonsang Niempradit and Lt. Gen. Jiradej Kotcharat, Commander of the Thai Third Regional Army to work with the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees ( UNHCR ), Doctors Without Borders ( MSF ), and other humanitarian groups to seek to resettle the Lao- Hmong refugees in Australia and other third countries that have agreed to grant them asylum.

Following a recent hunger strike, on August 24, 2007, Amnesty International issued another human rights Urgent Action appeal regarding the dire plight of 149 Lao Hmong refugees detained at Nong Khai Immigration Center and some 8,000 Lao-Hmong refugees at Ban Huay Nam Khao, Petchabun Province, Thailand.

Invited speakers and participants will include senior Members of Congress, U.S. Congressional staff, Administration officials, current and retired U.S. Department of Defense, State and Central Intelligence Agency officials, policymakers, non-governmental organizations and Lao and Hmong community leaders.

The event follows the recent release of a U.S. Congressional letter sent to His Majesty Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand, to appeal for his emergency humanitarian help to stop the forced or involuntary repatriation of the 8,000 Lao-Hmong refugees from Thailand to Laos. The August 2007 letter was signed by Rep. Frank Wolf ( R-VA ), Rep. Ron Kind ( D-WI ) , Rep. Dana Rohrabacher ( R-CA ) and other Members of Congress. Copies of the U.S. Congressional letter, signed by thirteen Members of Congress, were sent directly by the U.S. Congress to His Excellency Krit Garnjana Goonchorn, Royal Thai Ambassador to the United States, in Washington, D.C. for transmission to His Majesty Bhumibol Adulyadej, King of Thailand.

Invited participants/cosponsors include Members of Congress, the Center for Public Policy Analysis, Amnesty International, UNHCR, Doctors Without Borders ( MSF ), Human Rights Watch, Reporters Without Borders, United League for Democracy in Laos, Inc., Lao Veterans of America, Inc., Lao Human Rights Council, Inc., Lao Students Movement for Democracy and other organizations.

BOON
08-31-2007, 11:29 AM
Jsut reading this today, http://www.straight.com/article-107535/serene-laos-sways-under-heavy-history, didnt know the US bombed Laos more than Cambodia to become the earner of "the dubious distinction of being the most heavily bombed nation in the history of warfare." Seems like they are just one of the many groups used, like the Kurds, by the US for Uncle Sam's wars too.

What other major ethnic groups are in that area, i know there are the Karen tribe, in the north of thailand as well.

BOON
08-31-2007, 11:31 AM
Nevermind the latter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_tribe

taylor
08-31-2007, 12:02 PM
Thanks for posting that article Boon! I didn't hadn't realized that Laos had that dubious distinction.

will
10-04-2007, 12:47 AM
I had no idea about this until my friend Branan in NYC emailed me this. He just married a Hmong girl and I was casually asking if she was from Laos or Vietnam, and then he drops this bomb on me. So, why the fuck is this not covered in the New York Times on like a daily basis?

"She is Hmong from Laos, was airlifted out of Thailand in 1975. Just saw a doc on the Hmong in Loas - absolute Hell, very hard to watch. The Loa gov is gassing and mutilating the Hmong trapped in the hills of northen Laos. Will, you know I have a strong stomach and not easily grossed-out but this doc (filmed by the mountain Hmong themselves) contained images that were straight out of Dante's Inferno. This is happening now! Goto youtube and search for "hmong" or "hunted like animals". And now, because the Loa gov calls them "insurgents", thanks to the patriot act the US gov now calls them "terrorists" - the same people who fought along side our soldiers (and 30,000 died). They are STILL fighting.

Sorry, you didn't ask for that but I can't think about the Hmong now without thinking about that doc.

As for film projects: I'm still finishing off that indie feature about meth addicts, dealers in Texas, I am writing a horror film about religious fanaticism and now I am outlining a script about the Hmong situation. I have come to believe that movies (as insipid as most of them are) can make a difference if done well. "Blood Diamond" did succeed in making people aware of the nasty diamond business in Africa and the industry has been forced to respond."

herrokitty
10-05-2007, 06:26 PM
How closely related are the hmong and the northern thailand hill people?

taylor
10-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Herro kitty, I'm not sure how closely related Hmong are to the other hill tribes... Akha, Karen, Yao, La Hu, & Lisu because each one has it's own language and culture and traditional dress. But I know that the Yao (Mien) people also fought in the secret war in Laos too and they use Chinese Characters in their writing. The Hmong were originally from China too.

Will, I hope your film about the Hmong will help others be aware of the situation current Hmong situation in the jungles of Laos... I'm not sure why there isn't more press about it. I think maybe because most people don't care about a war that ended over 30 years ago?

The film "Hunted like Animals" will be showing in Sacramento at the end of October. I've only watched the clips on youtube and haven't seen the whole documentary. So I will be crying my eyes out.

herrokitty
10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
I saw a picture of a hmong girl in some cookbook, and she was the very image of this peasant girl I was totally into when I used to summer at my aunt's in Chiang Mai

will
10-08-2007, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by taylor
Herro kitty, I'm not sure how closely related Hmong are to the other hill tribes... Akha, Karen, Yao, La Hu, & Lisu because each one has it's own language and culture and traditional dress. But I know that the Yao (Mien) people also fought in the secret war in Laos too and they use Chinese Characters in their writing. The Hmong were originally from China too.

Will, I hope your film about the Hmong will help others be aware of the situation current Hmong situation in the jungles of Laos... I'm not sure why there isn't more press about it. I think maybe because most people don't care about a war that ended over 30 years ago?

The film "Hunted like Animals" will be showing in Sacramento at the end of October. I've only watched the clips on youtube and haven't seen the whole documentary. So I will be crying my eyes out.

It's my friend's film, that was in quotes from an email he sent me. But yeah, he's onto something that is being tragically ignored by the rest of the world.

herrokitty
01-27-2010, 04:23 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/us/28sacramento.html
For Hmong Hunters, a Guiding Voice in Their New Home
A radio host translates California’s wildlife regulations for fellow Hmong immigrants, bridging the gap between tradition and law.

puppy fields
01-27-2010, 05:14 PM
did you guys know Gran Torino was the highest grossing movie Clint ever made?

golivar
01-27-2010, 06:39 PM
i find that hard to believe. what about "heartbreak ridge"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqM_tPumTZI

kamenriderv3
01-27-2010, 07:46 PM
i thought "any which way but loose" was the jackpot.

key_loser
01-27-2010, 07:56 PM
Million Dollar Baby?

Him singing at the end of Gran Torino...um...made me cry.

Iago
01-27-2010, 08:09 PM
Always loved the Miao silver headdresses:

http://www.picto.asia/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/miao_dancers.jpg
http://www.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/images/exbig_images/42af5b049d94635811c78f18870251ed.jpg
http://english.people.com.cn/200511/17/images/1116_D52.jpg
http://www.c-c-c.org/chineseculture/minority/miao2.jpg