Iris Chang's Rape of Nanking [Archive]

d@ m@n

08-31-2001, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by montyburnz
Originally posted by d@ m@n
i've heard a lot about this book and all the graphic details in it. something out your worst nightmare. do any of you recommend this book at all? how much of it is really true? i've heard that a lot of critics claim a lot of false infomration in the book. what do you think?

I haven't read it either. I'm a little afraid to...

Most reviews praise her documentation and use of several different sources. I think she gets criticized for not enough analysis. I think the critics that claim false information are usually the right wingers in Japan who won't acknowledge what they did in the war.

you say you're afraid to read this? is it cuz of the graphic details? i've read bits and pieces from different sites and it is pretty bad. something out of your worst nightmare. have there been movies made about this event before???

montyburnz

08-31-2001, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by d@ m@n
Originally posted by montyburnz
Originally posted by d@ m@n
i've heard a lot about this book and all the graphic details in it. something out your worst nightmare. do any of you recommend this book at all? how much of it is really true? i've heard that a lot of critics claim a lot of false infomration in the book. what do you think?

I haven't read it either. I'm a little afraid to...

Most reviews praise her documentation and use of several different sources. I think she gets criticized for not enough analysis. I think the critics that claim false information are usually the right wingers in Japan who won't acknowledge what they did in the war.

you say you're afraid to read this? is it cuz of the graphic details? i've read bits and pieces from different sites and it is pretty bad. something out of your worst nightmare. have there been movies made about this event before???

Its the graphic detail. Its one thing to watch a horror movie or story, but its another to know the kind of really awful things that happened to real people.
I don't think there have been fictional movies made. I'm sure we would have heard about it, maybe there's a documentary somewhere.

But to this day the Japanese won't acknowledge or apologize. Which is kind of disgusting because the Germans
had to own up to what they did to their victims.

angrykitty

08-31-2001, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by montyburnz
But to this day the Japanese won't acknowledge or apologize. Which is kind of disgusting because the Germans
had to own up to what they did to their victims.

well keep in my mind it has been mostly right wing japanese that have been doing this. they are a minority in japan but wield great influence.

not that it makes anything better, but the japanese give the most charities in the form of capital and resources to the rest of the world then any other country. they have problems but they are not the villians some people would like to think they are.

montyburnz

08-31-2001, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by angrykitty
Originally posted by montyburnz
But to this day the Japanese won't acknowledge or apologize. Which is kind of disgusting because the Germans
had to own up to what they did to their victims.

well keep in my mind it has been mostly right wing japanese that have been doing this. they are a minority in japan but wield great influence.

not that it makes anything better, but the japanese give the most charities in the form of capital and resources to the rest of the world then any other country. they have problems but they are not the villians some people would like to think they are.

When you hear older koreans, chinese, and filipinos talk about the japanese during the war you hear a lot of bitterness and venom. I don't feel that way, but then again i never had to live thru what they did during the war.

I'm not trying to paint a broad brush on the japanese as villians. It just that they've never confronted their past. They've allowed themselves to deny what really happened. There's a controversy over their high school history books since it glosses over the war and their role in it. This makes other asian countries angry and nervous since, they feel, it could happen again.

so the japanese people aren't evil, but their soldiers certainly were during WWII.

d@ m@n

08-31-2001, 12:41 PM

i'd have to agree that the japanese govenrment has to admit to their wrong doing. however it goes not make the japanese people as a whole evil. it was just their right winged government at the time.

you know? i think there were a couple fictional movies made of this event but they were hong kong productions. (as expected) if there where ever a real mainstream production of this event, it would create a lot of major contraversey for sure! =T

angrykitty

08-31-2001, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by d@ m@n
i'd have to agree that the japanese govenrment has to admit to their wrong doing. however it goes not make the japanese people as a whole evil. it was just their right winged government at the time.

not to sure if the japanese goverment is right wing. but there are right wing forces (yakuza, loons, corporations) in japan that are really influential.

d@ m@n

08-31-2001, 12:44 PM

the opening scene in the korean movie Shiri would probably be what most of this movie would be like and i wouldn't care to sit through something like that at all! =T

angrykitty

08-31-2001, 01:18 PM

some flicks involving japanese atrocites, but not exactly what you guys are talking about.

bridge over river kwai (classic)

empire of the sun (speilberg)

merry christmas, mister lawrence (women seem to really like this one)

1941 (heh, ok it's just an atrocious movie with some japanese in it, i kind of liked this one though)

can't really think of any flick based on Nanking.
isn't there a chinese or french movie that takes place during this era?

montyburnz

08-31-2001, 01:44 PM

i think there's some low budget HK horror movie
based upon the Japanese experiments on prisoners of war.

I know the Japanese and , i think, the Germans performed
nasty experiments on the limits of the human body to
extremes of temperature or certain surgical and medical treatments.

SLM

08-31-2001, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by montyburnz
I know the Japanese and , i think, the Germans performed
nasty experiments on the limits of the human body to
extremes of temperature or certain surgical and medical treatments.

The Japanese performed many grisly experiments on living humans whilst occupying China. Read "Unit 731 Testimony" by Hal Gold to start...

The following is from :http://vikingphoenix.com/public/JapanIncorporated/1895-1945/u731-1.htm

Book Review - Unit 731: Testimony
by Hal Gold
Review from New Yenbooks for 1996

In the aftermath of World War II, the world learned of the scientific investigations carried out by the Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731. Author Hal Gold chronicles the malevolent work performed by these military doctors--vivisection of conscious victims, deep-freezing of living flesh, and injections of plague and anthrax into healthy subjects. He explores the connection between Japan's civilian medical establishment and the military men of Unit 731 and analyzes the postwar collusion between Unit 731 members and the U.S. Army that allowed the former to go unpunished. Unit 731--Testimony is a riveting book detailing a tragic period in the world's history that raised ethical question s which we continue to grapple with today.

Researched in conjunction with Japanese medical historians
Extensive use of previously unavailable Japanese language sources
110 X 182 mm, 208 pp. with photos
ISBN: 4-900737-39-9

YENBOOKS
New Yen Books is a unit of the Tuttle Company, Japan. Available in Japan and the U.S.

whiteywillpay

08-31-2001, 03:42 PM

I would recommend it as an introduction.

Personally, I was very angry about how the Japanese press covered this book. Although admittedly, this book is of very limited scope - it was the first "popular" book on this subjet in the west. And they critized it on the wrong grounds; that it was not scholastically robust. Frankly, if they wanted a scholastically robust book on this subject, there's plenty out there. What was important about this book was that it finally put this attention out to the western public. Ever wonder why all of a sudden "NOW" there is a steady stream of reports concerning Korea-Japan China-Japan relations concerning WWII? In my opinion, this book had alot to do with that.

There's also another good book - if you want to go to the other end of the spectrum (one of personal reports): it's called War Victimization and Japan (Internal Public Hearing Report). This is much harder to get through than Iris Chang's book because it's composed of personal accounts. It took me a long time to get through it, although it's only 150 pages.

I heard these women speak out publicly at a Comfort Woman protest - I don't think there was a dry eye in the crowd. What the Japanese did during WWII was absolutely dispicable.

p.s. The Japanese right wing is not as small as you may believe - over 45% of the Japanese voting public consider themselves conservative right wingers. The LDP is "liberal" by name only.

Especially now, because of the economic down turn in Japan, more and more of the Japanese voting population are tuning into right wing sentiments.

But even culturally there are alot of right wing artifacts all over Japan. Here's a good example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/25/world/25JAPA.html?ex=995741609&ei=1&en=cdccb3c3b9418b7c

I know the present generation of Japanese don't believe this, or maybe don't even care about it. And true, they have nothing to do with it. But considering that the Germans had set an example of how to come to terms of past war crimes - I wish the Japanese would do the same.

Then again - did anyone hear about that one Korean punk band (damn forgot their name, will post it soon), that had a concert in Japan? Supposedly they ripped up the Japanese flag in front of the crowd, and the crowd went wild for them.

I just do not understand...

montyburnz

08-31-2001, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by whiteywillpay
I know the present generation of Japanese don't believe this, or maybe don't even care about it. And true, they have nothing to do with it. But considering that the Germans had set an example of how to come to terms of past war crimes - I wish the Japanese would do the same.

Then again - did anyone hear about that one Korean punk band (damn forgot their name, will post it soon), that had a concert in Japan? Supposedly they ripped up the Japanese flag in front of the crowd, and the crowd went wild for them.

I think 2 weeks ago, some men in Korean chopped off their pinkies and mailed it to Japan in protest to the Japanese Prime Minister's visit to a war memorial. That is hardcore.

drahcirual

08-31-2001, 04:12 PM

a professor of an asian american and pacific culture course i took, highly recommended it during the end of school sessions, trying to influence people to actually read during vacation. i've picked it up twice, but haven't yet read it.

angrykitty

08-31-2001, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by whiteywillpay
p.s. The Japanese right wing is not as small as you may believe - over 45% of the Japanese voting public consider themselves conservative right wingers. The LDP is "liberal" by name only.

ok, were talking hard core right wingers here right? it's one thing to be conservative it's another thing to be a facist.

back this statistic up, with some thing.

Willie D

08-31-2001, 04:26 PM

The HK movie you're thinking of is Man Behind the Sun and it's a total category III b-movie splatter fest. Not for serious study.

I've read excerpts of Chang's Rape of Nanjing and it's definitely not for the faint of heart. There is another coffee table sized book on the subject I saw at Borders with the same photos and additional ones.

I don't really recommend looking at either. Not because I prefer living in denial but because I don't think seeing shit that fucked helps you grow as a person in any positive way.

Willie D

08-31-2001, 04:50 PM

angrykitty

09-01-2001, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Willie D
The LDP is Facist in some respects. It was supported by the US in the 50's and 60's to counter (yup!) communism. Try reading Tokyo Underworld by [firstname?] Whiting. Really a facinating book on behind the scenes machinations in Japan.

thanks for the tip on the book, i will look it up. but i don't understand how being anti-communist makes a political party facist. plus the 50 and 60's were over 40 years ago, a lot can change in that time.

neku74

09-01-2001, 09:08 AM

while i agree that there are some graphic details in this book, i would also highly recommend it. it really exposed me to the horrors of japanese pacific war atrocities, and i will never, ever forget or allow others to forget what happened. some people may not be able to stomach the pictures (one that i will never forget is of a woman that had been raped, tortured and mutilated, with a spear stuck in her vagina) - but at the same time, if you are really interested in this subject, i would urge you to check it out. if only to discover another facet of the "truth". you will definitely learn something from this book.

whenever i think of the brutalities committed by the japanese all over asia, and how they have never been held accountable as were the germans, i get so angry that i see stars. you will have to forgive me my biases - i am korean so this is a very emotional issue for me. i do agree with the person that said that the japanese people are not evil on an individual basis. all we want is some sort of recognition or admittance of guilt by the japanese government towards the victims that are still living today. is that too much to ask?

i also heard about the korean gangsters that cut off their pinkies in protest of the release of yet another history textbook glossing over the facts. i agree with their actions - the world must recognize our grievances. ask around and see if american people are aware of the atrocities - chances are they are not.

monty & whitey: thanks for the recommendations on other books, will have to check them out.

whiteywillpay

09-01-2001, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by angrykitty
Originally posted by whiteywillpay
p.s. The Japanese right wing is not as small as you may believe - over 45% of the Japanese voting public consider themselves conservative right wingers. The LDP is "liberal" by name only.

ok, were talking hard core right wingers here right? it's one thing to be conservative it's another thing to be a facist.

back this statistic up, with some thing.

Whoever said anything about the right wing being fascist? I never said that.

What's usually considered as "right wing" when it comes to Japanese politics is often affiliated with politicians like Ishihara (the governor of Tokyo) who support xenophobic laws against immigrants, and a revisionary stance toward history.

The whole thing with the right wing is very come and go, depending on the strength of their economy. Which you know, is not too different from the cycles of American politics.

What's distressing about Japan's case is the large amount of what we would consider here in the states as "hate speech" by politicians. Ishihara for instance is very popular for his anti-immigration, anti-mainlander rhetoric. About 3 years ago during the aftermath of the Asian Financial Crisis he made a big uproar in Korea and China when he said on Japanese national television that (something to the effect of) "We had better be careful about all these no good third world Asians like the Chinese and the Koreans, because in the aftermath of a major earthquake here in Tokyo, they're going to riot and rape all the women." He was obviously referring to the riots in Tokyo after the large earthquake in the 1920s (I forget the exact date) - during which there were large riots all over Tokyo. What he doesn't realize is that, during those riots, the rioters were Japanese who were forming lynch mobs to attack Chinese and Koreans who were living in Tokyo at the time - because they were blaming foreigners for the earth quakes.

Imagine if an American politician said something like this on national television? There'd be no way he could continue his political career - but it's different Japan.

Combine this hardcore right wing rhetoric, and this voting block's push to remove Article #9 from Japan's post-war constitution...you'd have to wonder if the victims of WWII will ever get justice.

whiteywillpay

09-01-2001, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by neku74
i also heard about the korean gangsters that cut off their pinkies in protest of the release of yet another history textbook glossing over the facts. i agree with their actions - the world must recognize our grievances. ask around and see if american people are aware of the atrocities - chances are they are not.

monty & whitey: thanks for the recommendations on other books, will have to check them out.

Actually they were protesters who bit off the ends of their fingers to write a letter of protest with their own blood. And I think they also sent those bits to the Japanese government.

There are alot of good books on this subject - but I'm afraid alot of them read like history books, and they themselves tend to dehumanize some of the atrocities. What I liked about Iris Chang's book, and the International Public Hearing is that it brought the stories of the victims out into the forefront.

Yes, it was a war and alot of awful things happen during wars - but this was just about the most brutal and atrocious war that had ever been released on human kind.

Another good thread to follow along this line is the US post-cold war politics that allowed many of these perpetrators to get away with their crimes. And Japan is the prime candidate for this type of study, because many of their war time leaders were kept in power to help McArthur rebuild the country in preparation for a US/Soviet showdown (in 1945, the US expected a war with the Soviet Union in Korea, not China).

And to any Japan apologists: please do not argue that this happened 50 years ago and that it does not deserve to be revisited. The fact of the matter is - is that Japan's eventual reconstruction was largely fueled by American wars on mainland Asia. Japan was rebuilt with blood money. On top of that, Japan has over many times forced many of the Tiger economies into peripheral markets, often bullying their smaller neighbors into a development path that supported Japan's own economy in complimentary ways - rather than supporting their former colonies into development paths that were good for them. Japan has done absolutely nothing to apologize for its wrongs.

angrykitty

09-01-2001, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by whiteywillpay
And to any Japan apologists: please do not argue that this happened 50 years ago and that it does not deserve to be revisited. The fact of the matter is - is that Japan's eventual reconstruction was largely fueled by American wars on mainland Asia. Japan was rebuilt with blood money. On top of that, Japan has over many times forced many of the Tiger economies into peripheral markets, often bullying their smaller neighbors into a development path that supported Japan's own economy in complimentary ways - rather than supporting their former colonies into development paths that were good for them. Japan has done absolutely nothing to apologize for its wrongs.

i never said it wasn't worth revisting. i hope the people involved with this time period will find closure and be able to move on. it's horrible what happened.

i still think your painting a picture of the japanese as being a lot more evil then they really are. i think your a left wing loon, that on occassion, repeats something worthwhile.

montyburnz

09-02-2001, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by angrykitty
Originally posted by whiteywillpay
And to any Japan apologists: please do not argue that this happened 50 years ago and that it does not deserve to be revisited. The fact of the matter is - is that Japan's eventual reconstruction was largely fueled by American wars on mainland Asia. Japan was rebuilt with blood money. On top of that, Japan has over many times forced many of the Tiger economies into peripheral markets, often bullying their smaller neighbors into a development path that supported Japan's own economy in complimentary ways - rather than supporting their former colonies into development paths that were good for them. Japan has done absolutely nothing to apologize for its wrongs.

i never said it wasn't worth revisting. i hope the people involved with this time period will find closure and be able to move on. it's horrible what happened.

i still think your painting a picture of the japanese as being a lot more evil then they really are. i think your a left wing loon, that on occassion, repeats something worthwhile.

i think the gloves are off between the two of you. well whatever, its like every fight I've seen at a punk rock show. Someone's feelings always gets hurt in the pit so they gotta hit each other. My attitude is: hell, i hate to see people bash each other, but I ain't fucking breaking 'em up. ha ha.

anyhoo, So here's my rants:
(caveat emptor, friends. I don't claim to be an expert on anything. also bear with me i wrote this really early in the morning)

I don't think history is removed and abstract to us. It tells those in the present how they got where they are and it can advise us of the future, if we want to learn from it.

I think Japan is an insular, rigid society in denial...it hasn't acknowledged the FULL scope of its past, thus skirting responsibility for its war crimes and understanding of the human cost. For instance, the japanese high school textbooks don't make any mention of their activities in the war. Or what about the comfort women, asian women kidnapped to sexually serve the japanese troops? The Japanese government refuses to pay them reparations so conservative groups try to sweep it under the rug. They offer their own private reparations so the government won't have to admit guilt.

I think the conservative elements of Japanese society..like conservative elements everywhere...want to preserve the status quo and maintain a blind pride in their nation and culture. I think more mainstream Japan goes along with this since the past is complex and unflattering...they're afraid of losing face and getting shame.

The Rev. Desmond Tutu did a brilliant thing in Post-Apartheid South Africa by creating the Truth Commission. At these publicized hearings, Apartheid government operatives and anti-apartheid guerrillas were given full amnesty IF they confessed to all their political crimes during Apartheid, whether it was a cop torturing a politcal prisoner or a terrorist setting a bomb off in a crowded mall. I think Tutu understands that it is better to let the guilty parties go as long as their crimes are made public and undeniable. Horrible crimes were committed on both sides of Apartheid, but for a society to heal it needs to see them on the surface so it can deal with them, hopefully.

Not only do the Japanese have to come to terms with their own complicity in starting WWII (like the Germans had to)...they have to acknowledge the past they've had with their asian neighbors. why is it so hard to say one word: sorry? We only have to look at the destruction of the former Yugoslavia to see the success of glossing over ethnic tensions and histories.

Maybe the same Truth Commission might be applied to the Japanese military in WWII. Don't go after the japanese veterans...but make their actions attributable and indelible.

Lastly, I don't think the Rape of Nanking is an experience a survivor gets closure from. Neither does a survivor of Hitler's concentration camps or Pol Pot's death camps. It
was hell on earth...

whiteywillpay

09-02-2001, 02:01 AM

i never said it wasn't worth revisting. i hope the people involved with this time period will find closure and be able to move on. it's horrible what happened.

i still think your painting a picture of the japanese as being a lot more evil then they really are. i think your a left wing loon, that on occassion, repeats something worthwhile.

1st: how do you expect these people to find closure when the perpetrators themselves will not formally admit to their crimes?

2nd: if you had read my entire post, I had balanced my opinion of Japan - I never said that 100% of Japanese citizens are right wing conservatives. Furthermore, I said that 45% of the "voting" population are right wing conservative. Considering that I've noted that the youth of Japan are a fairly a-political group which dissociates itself (sometimes actively) from the right wing and Japanese nationalism - I don't see where you get this idea that I'm painting Japan as an evil nation.

Finally: If you had any knowledge about this issue, which you obviously don't, you would probably have a far different attitude. BECAUSE, you'd realize that the outcries against Japan's attitude toward WWII atrocities are directed toward THE GOVERNMENT, and NOT the Japanese people. And yes, there is a distinction between the two; and this distinction crucial to this discussion. But you obviously fail to grasp this distinction, and so your opinion is reactionary rather than forward thinking.

angrykitty

09-02-2001, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by whiteywillpay
1st: how do you expect these people to find closure when the perpetrators themselves will not formally admit to their crimes?

i want to appoligize to the GR board if i'm coming across as crass. i feel horrible for what happened in WW2 and the japanese goverment is wrong in how there dealing with this.

japan needs to do some things for closure to happen. i think it would be healthier for south east asia if japan would just admit it did some horrible things. in order for that to happen though there needs to be great economic and political pressure. i suggest if this is important to you that you boycott japanese products and write to your representive.

wwp - what you call reactionary is just a reply to your post. i feel your posts border on japan bashing. japan has done a lot more good in the world than bad since WW2. i still think your a loon.

whiteywillpay

09-02-2001, 05:49 PM

wwp - what you call reactionary is just a reply to your post. i feel your posts border on japan bashing. japan has done a lot more good in the world than bad since WW2. i still think your a loon.

But what has it done to address it's atrocities in WW2?

My response got a little heated because you seem to be condoning Japan's attempt to brush its crimes under the rug. And what I'm "bashing" are political mechanisms in Japan that allow this to continue. NOT, it's people or it's culture.

And lastly - what good has Japan done for the world since WWII?

(okay, if you say they gave money to non-profits and charitable organizations that's fine, because I think they now give the most in terms of per-capita. But my feelings about this are a little ambiguous - because they've often used this as a cover to distance themselves from their colonialist past without acknowledging the legacies that still exist in these post-colonial times.)

One thing - angrykitty - did you look at that New York Times article I posted? I'm not sure if you're Japanese or Japanese American, or neither of the above; but these right wing sentiments are not underground like the recent neo-nazi movements in Germany. It's part of the pop culture. There's hentai being sold on Japan's comic book market that openly depicts the sexual abuse of women from Japan's former colonies. Stuff like this is NOT funny.

I still think you're more concerned about not making waves, having everyone get along, and making sure no one gets their feelings hurt - rather than talking about the truth and finding solutions to history's injustices.

[Edited by whiteywillpay on 09-02-2001 at 06:59 PM]

angrykitty

09-02-2001, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by whiteywillpay
I still think you're more concerned about not making waves, having everyone get along, and making sure no one gets their feelings hurt - rather than talking about the truth and finding solutions to history's injustices.

[Edited by whiteywillpay on 09-02-2001 at 06:59 PM]

no not really, i called you a loon twice because i believe it's true and i really don't care how you feel about it. i also think your inquiries into my racial background pretty lame.

i believe that japan is not the greatest villian in asia and has added a lot of positive stabilty to the region. but i don't want to dillute the seriousness of this thread so i won't change the subject. i have nothing more to add to what i have already said, so AK will shut up now.

09-03-2001, 01:26 AM

I urge all who are interested to try this site: http://web.missouri.edu/~jschool/nanking/note/note.htm

As for the acknowledgement of wrongdoing, it naturally should have been done many years ago. However, the US govt (and specifically MacArthur) got in the way of that. While there were war crimes trials, the Allies let some major players go, most notably Emperor Horihito. Why? They didn't want a weakened Japan to be a vacuum into which the communists could rush. I know that sounds simplistic to many and crazy to others, but that was the thinking of SCAP (Supreme Command for the Allied Powers) at the time. BTW, SCAP essentially ran Japan during the occupation and NOTHING was done w/o its approval. SCAP choose who was and who was not going to be held accountable. They decided to keep many of the right wingers in power (and keep out the left) because this was seen as the 'safer' course: Japan wasn't going to be a problem with the right in power because they weren't about to rock SCAP's boat in any significant way, otherwise it was off to the gallows. With the right in power, SCAP had a neutered government with which to work. The left, however, had spent the war in jail or exile therefore they could chart an independent course and tell SCAP where to go. What all this means is that there were going to be NO apologies at that time. And then as time passed, the Japanese (especially the younger ones) could quite rightly say that what happened in the war has nothing to do with them.

An important aspect of this that is often overlooked is just what, culturally, is protocol for apologies in Japan. In other words, if it's anathema for a culture to apologize in any significant way, should we expect them to do it in such a way as to satisfy the aggrieved. I personally believe yes, but I'm not Japanese. I know from personal experience that, in most cases in Japan, if you make a mistake, you acknowledge it, say you have no excuses, and everyone moves on. This probably stems from a long-tradition of people not moving for centuries and as a result, grudges would result in never-ending bloodfeuds that could destroy whole towns. Also, persuant to some other posts about Japan donating the most money per capita, financial compensation is adequate in many cases, especially if it's voluntary.

Well, that's enough for now. I agree that "Tokyo Underworld" is an important book about postwar Japan, but the mack daddy is "Embracing Defeat" by John Dower.

Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima

09-04-2001, 12:16 PM

This was one crazy read. I think all countries should make this book mandatory for their high school students.

d@ m@n

09-04-2001, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima
This was one crazy read. I think all countries should make this book mandatory for their high school students.

i don't think high school is mature enough to handle this graphic content. maybe college.

dequinix

09-04-2001, 08:25 PM

I had heard about this book, but never took the time to really research it, naturally staying away from these for more Murakami-esque novels.

But because of what I read here, I checked out some info on it. Here's a little quote from Salon's review (http://www.salon.com/books/sneaks/1999/01/11sneaks.html) of the book:

"Chinese men were forced at gunpoint to rape their mothers and daughters. Japanese soldiers gang-raped women by the tens of thousands. They nailed women to trees. They drove stakes through their vaginas. They bound the hands of Chinese men, lined them up in long rows, and machine-gunned them into huge burial ditches. They bayoneted babies in front of their mothers. They buried people alive."

That's El Mad F0cked Up. Definitely gonna try to check this book out.

03-05-2003, 01:16 PM

I have to disagree. :( I do not think this should be mandatory reading in ANY course simply based on its historical innaccuracies and bias slant. I think it's a good book because it does bring the issue of Nanking into mainstream society, but it is by no means an historical text. It's more of a story from one woman's perspective. She is very very bitter at "the Japanese." It really bothers me when people say that, "the japanese." Let's stop generalizing already!
The Rape of Nanking was not the worst atrocity in world history for your information. I am not trying to downplay the event itself. I personally find it a horrific tragedy. However, I think the book is too emotional, not backed up by enough historical evidence (and in fact gets a few dates and people wrong), and also does not do anything to help ease Japanese/Chinese relations. Instead this book fuels it by "enlightening" young Chinese kids about the atrocities "the Japanese" commited against them without looking into Japanese culture and asking the important questions of why this even happened. That element I believe, the question of "why", is the most important thing in learning from our past.
Rather than recommending it as a quick read on the Rape of Nanking, I recommend it only after reading a bit of background work on the Rape of Nanking so you're looking at it from a more neutral perspective.
Initially after reading it, I thought it was fantastic. Very well written and touching. HOWEVER! After doing some research and asking two of my Asian history professors I found that the book was highly controversial and so I conclude that this book needs to be read "with caution."

On a side note: I think internal leadership in China has caused some of the worst and most horrific atrocities in the country's history.

:) I realize this post is mega-old but I was going to start one with the exact same title.

angrykitty

03-05-2003, 01:22 PM

well said hotdog.

Ricky

03-05-2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by angrykitty

well keep in my mind it has been mostly right wing japanese that have been doing this. they are a minority in japan but wield great influence.

not that it makes anything better, but the japanese give the most charities in the form of capital and resources to the rest of the world then any other country. they have problems but they are not the villians some people would like to think they are.

Yeah like why are they providing north korea with food and aid, when North Korea threatens them regularly?

angrykitty

03-05-2003, 01:51 PM

jeepers...i forgot i wrote that.

i get the feeling the japanese could change overnight if n.korea persists on this path. i read today in the LA times, that the US has given up on preventing n.korea from building nukes. it's estimated that they will be able to produce 1 nuke a month.

i've talked about the japan/korea relationship in another thread. i believe in a lot of ways japan could do better, but there trying, kind of like how white people in the US helped create civil right in the 60s, they were a minority but it couldn't happen without their help. it can really go either way if their not careful.

i also believe n.korea is doing it the wrong way and really has no moral grounds to stand on.

kind of a related article;

"Despite criticism from China and South Korea, though not the United States, the Education Ministry recently approved a deeply flawed "history" textbook written by right-wing historians. The swift, overwhelming rejection of the text by Japanese educators has not impeded its sales in the bookstores, however. Thus the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-Japan peace and security treaties arrives at a particularly critical time for the future of Japan's economic and political reform. But is reform possible if Japan does not confront its past?

When signed by Prime Minister Yoshida Shigeru at the height of the Cold War on Sept. 8, 1951, the peace treaty required the Allies to abandon their quest for reparations and war damages from the Japanese government. The treaty, craftily drawn up by John Foster Dulles, obliged Japan to acknowledge only minimal war responsibility by accepting the judgments of Allied war crimes tribunals in Tokyo and elsewhere, and to pay the victims of its aggression token reparations, and only at the state level. The Soviet Union and India refused to sign; China and the two Koreas were not even invited. These U.S. arrangements helped lodge Japan in a permanent Cold War position vis-a-vis its potential friends in Asia.

That same day, in return for securing the restoration of its sovereignty and the opportunity to reenter the world community, Yoshida Shigeru signed a security treaty that allowed U.S. bases and troops on the home islands and on strategic Okinawa to continue. The results have been mixed. The military alliance has helped Japan to prosper and the U.S. to expand its military hegemony throughout the Pacific, but at the cost of undermining Japan's peace constitution and while giving the Pentagon a disproportionate voice in America's Asia policy.

The 50th anniversary of these treaties furnishes an opportunity for Japan's political leaders to confront and end their double standard on the past. They are already stalling on paying reparations to the surviving victims of their war. Now if they continue to focus on Yasukuni Shrine, sanitize their history and avoid the truth about the emperor's war, they risk forfeiting for decades the trust of their closest Asian neighbors, Korea and China."

http://www.gainfo.org/SFPT/news/20010907aLATimes.htm

drahcirual

03-05-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by montyburnz
I don't think there have been fictional movies made. I'm sure we would have heard about it, maybe there's a documentary somewhere.
there is. rape of nanking, video published in 1999 by a&e television network, a part of the history channel series, history undercover.

GONG_LORD

03-05-2003, 02:29 PM

What part of raping Nanking did you not understand hotdog? At least the Germans don't try to hide their WW2 past and have gone through great lengths to make amends with history. The Japanese continue to deny their actions in China from WW2 and propogate this 'duh! we didn't do anything' mentality to all the youth of their country. This type of self denial is disgusting and I hope that the people who committed those acts rot in hell.

Originally posted by hotdog
I have to disagree. :( I do not think this should be mandatory reading in ANY course simply based on its historical innaccuracies and bias slant. I think it's a good book because it does bring the issue of Nanking into mainstream society, but it is by no means an historical text. It's more of a story from one woman's perspective. She is very very bitter at "the Japanese." It really bothers me when people say that, "the japanese." Let's stop generalizing already!
The Rape of Nanking was not the worst atrocity in world history for your information. I am not trying to downplay the event itself. I personally find it a horrific tragedy. However, I think the book is too emotional, not backed up by enough historical evidence (and in fact gets a few dates and people wrong), and also does not do anything to help ease Japanese/Chinese relations. Instead this book fuels it by "enlightening" young Chinese kids about the atrocities "the Japanese" commited against them without looking into Japanese culture and asking the important questions of why this even happened. That element I believe, the question of "why", is the most important thing in learning from our past.
Rather than recommending it as a quick read on the Rape of Nanking, I recommend it only after reading a bit of background work on the Rape of Nanking so you're looking at it from a more neutral perspective.
Initially after reading it, I thought it was fantastic. Very well written and touching. HOWEVER! After doing some research and asking two of my Asian history professors I found that the book was highly controversial and so I conclude that this book needs to be read "with caution."

On a side note: I think internal leadership in China has caused some of the worst and most horrific atrocities in the country's history.

:) I realize this post is mega-old but I was going to start one with the exact same title.

03-05-2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by GONG_LORD
What part of raping Nanking did you not understand hotdog? At least the Germans don't try to hide their WW2 past and have gone through great lengths to make amends with history. The Japanese continue to deny their actions in China from WW2 and propogate this 'duh! we didn't do anything' mentality to all the youth of their country. This type of self denial is disgusting and I hope that the people who committed those acts rot in hell.

I kind of don't know if you are being serious here. (Did you actually read my post?) I'm talking about the book "Rape of Nanking" and I'm arguing that it should not be a mandatory text book for people studying the history of China or Japan.

Once again..."the Japanese." That alone demonstrates your ignorance on the issue.

The Japanese army DID commit terrible war crimes in Nanking. That's not up for debate on this post.

nathaniel

03-05-2003, 05:02 PM

here here! re-read the post, gong lord

lynrei

03-05-2003, 11:02 PM

if you want graphic try this -

www.cryfreetown.org

i read rape of nanking, and it was pretty detailed. just feel bless that you dont have the coffee table book like my old professor does.

Denstradamus

11-10-2004, 09:07 PM

Iris Chang author of the Rape of Nanking commited suicide today by self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. It just flashed on our local news since she was local. rip.

YelloKitty

11-10-2004, 09:14 PM

oh fuck... r.i.p.

cabbagechild

11-10-2004, 09:54 PM

are you sure this is true?

Denstradamus

11-10-2004, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by cabbagechild
are you sure this is true?

it's breaking news. it just happend so this is the only article of it i could find. i'm sure there will be more in the morning.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/nation/2895253

Rape of Nanking author Iris Chang dies
Police say the 36-year-old shot herself in her car
Associated Press

LOS GATOS, CALIF. - Iris Chang, a best-selling author who chronicled the Japanese occupation of China and the history of Chinese immigrants in the United States, was found dead in her car of a self-inflicted gunshot, authorities said Wednesday. She was 36.

Chang, who won critical acclaim for her books The Rape of Nanking and The Chinese in America, was found along Highway 17 just south of Los Gatos, Santa Clara County authorities said. On Tuesday morning, a motorist noticed her car parked on a side road, checked the vehicle and called police.

The official cause of death has not been released, but investigators concluded that Chang, who was hospitalized recently for a breakdown, shot herself in the head. She lived in San Jose with her husband and 2-year-old son.

Born in Princeton, N.J., in 1968 and raised in Champaign-Urbana, Ill., Chang earned a bachelor's degree in journalism at the University of Illinois and a master's in science writing at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.

Chang worked briefly as a reporter for The Associated Press and the Chicago Tribune before leaving daily journalism to pursue her own writing. At age 25, she published her first book, Thread of the Silkworm, which tells the story of Tsien Hsue-shen, the Chinese-born physicist who pioneered China's missile program after being driven from the United States during the Cold War.

In 1997, Chang published the international best seller The Rape of Nanking, which described the rape, torture and killing of hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians by Japanese soldiers in the former Chinese capital during the 1930s. The Chinese in America, published last year, is a history of Chinese immigrants and their descendants in the United States.

The late historian Stephen Ambrose described Chang as "maybe the best young historian we've got, because she understands that to communicate history, you've got to tell the story in an interesting way."

Chang suffered a breakdown and was hospitalized during a recent trip researching her fourth book, according to her former editor and agent Susan Rabiner.

Chang continued to suffer from depression after she was released from the hospital. In a note to her family, she asked to be remembered as the person she was before she became ill — "engaged with life, committed to her causes, her writing and her family," Rabiner said.

shammy718

11-10-2004, 10:18 PM

incredible.

akuma

11-11-2004, 08:31 AM

truly awful

you tend to wonder how much trauma and horror the human psyche can handle before one becomes ill

shampoo

11-11-2004, 08:55 AM

it makes me sad and angry at the same time.
sad for her family and loved ones and sad for her state of mind that pushed her to that point.
angry that it was ultimately preventable. angry for the helplessness of it all.

fmstlr

11-11-2004, 09:17 AM

http://www.mpinews.com/img/41111Iris.jpg

R.I.P.

JLS

11-11-2004, 12:07 PM

Very sad indeed. R.I.P. and sincerest condolences to the Chang family.
"The sharpest blades are the most easily broken."

Margin Walker

11-11-2004, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Denstradamus
Chang continued to suffer from depression after she was released from the hospital. In a note to her family, she asked to be remembered as the person she was before she became ill — "engaged with life, committed to her causes, her writing and her family," Rabiner said.
Man, that's fucked. And she had a kid, too? Damn... I guess Nietzsche was right about that "gazing into the Abyss (http://www.wilcherish.com/cardshop/quotes/nietz1.htm)" business. :(
S.T.W.W. R.I.P.

hippyjonny

11-11-2004, 12:10 PM

damn rip

ohsoquiet

11-11-2004, 12:21 PM

:( r.i.p.

11-11-2004, 12:28 PM

Sukebe

11-11-2004, 02:36 PM

It was probably the Japs behind this.

YelloKitty

11-11-2004, 11:13 PM

from boingboing.net
Iris Chang, the acclaimed author of The Rape of Nanking was found dead today of an apparent self inflicted gun-wound in Northern California. The importance of her book cannot be overstated, and it's a true loss. Rumors, of course, are already flying that it may not have been suicide, but murder because of her next book which looked at American forces in Bataan. Rumors of course are rumors, and she was known for suffering from depression.

Snip from San Jose Mercury News coverage:

[Ignatius Ding, a retired engineer and personal friend] remembers her study, the room where she wrote, as "being like a shrine," its walls festooned with photos of Nanking atrocities, maps and documents."She would sit in there and just look at all those photographs,'' Ding said. "She was like a zombie.'' (...) Chang also wrote Thread of the Silkworm, a 1995 book about a Chinese scientist who was deported and later went on to create China's missile and space program.

ChenZan

11-16-2004, 11:08 AM

back a few years ago i picked this book up in the library not knowing what it was and it really hit me hard. Reason was because i had never learned about this in my school , it was always american history or european history. If not a mandatory text then at least let the kids know about it somehow because the only way to better the future is to learn from the past mistakes.

karmyk

11-16-2004, 08:52 PM

It's a very good book... I highly recommend reading it, if you can stomach it.

Sad, sad news.

Rest in peace, Ms. Chang. =(

invictus

11-17-2004, 07:44 AM

Her book made me want to read John Rabe's published diaries. It was a really interesting read, considering this man was a high ranking member of the Nazi party, yet fighting for human rights.

cabbagechild

11-17-2004, 12:42 PM

if you are married but keep your own last name, are you still ms. or mrs.?

yamchild

11-17-2004, 02:34 PM

usually the sort of people who use ms. rather than mrs. are the same sort of people who keep their last names.

cabbagechild

11-17-2004, 02:54 PM

well, hot dog!

YelloKitty

11-20-2004, 10:07 AM

Iris Chang's suicide stunned those she tried so hard to help -- the survivors of Japan's 'Rape of Nanking' (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/20/DDGN29TV0G1.DTL)
Nanjing, China -- When Iris Chang arrived here in the sweltering summer of 1995, locals were at once surprised and bemused that the sweet, ponytailed, young American planned to take on the darkest period in the city's modern history --

the 1937 wartime massacre when Japanese invaders killed some 300,000 people and raped, burned and pillaged the Chinese capital, then called Nanking, into ruins.

When she left a month later, historians, friends and colleagues were so impressed with her single-minded focus, they harbored little doubt the 27-year- old Bay Area writer would focus a global spotlight on what Chinese call the "Great Nanjing Massacre." They were right. When Chang's book, "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II," was published in 1997, it became an instant best-seller, generated international attention and reignited debate over Japan's responsibility for war crimes.

Chang, who lived in San Jose, shot herself to death Nov. 9 in her car, parked along a rural road south of Los Gatos. The news hit Nanjing fast and hard. This bustling city of 6 million glimmers with modern construction and growing wealth, but scars from the Japanese occupation linger barely beneath the surface. Many wonder if the gentle, sympathetic young woman, known here as Chang Shunru, was the massacre's latest victim.
...

600 mourn death of best-selling author
Iris Chang, 36, 'achieved enough for many lifetimes' (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/20/BAGF39UV0A1.DTL)
A cool winter sun shone in a cloudless blue sky as some 600 mourners gathered at the Gate of Heaven Cemetery in the Los Altos hills Friday morning to honor the life of author Iris Chang.

Floral wreaths of irises and roses filled the Mission-style chapel as eulogies were delivered in English and Chinese by family and friends who expressed shock and sorrow at Chang's death and appreciation for her life.

The historian, human-rights activist and author of "Thread of the Silkworm," "The Chinese in America" and the best-seller "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II," died Nov. 9 of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Chang, of San Jose, is survived by her husband, Brett Douglas; their 2- year-old son, Christopher; her parents, Shau-Jin and Ying-Ying Chang; and her brother, Michael Chang.

Born in Princeton, N.J., on March 28, 1968, Chang graduated with a journalism degree from the University of Illinois and earned a master's degree in writing from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. She worked for the Associated Press and Chicago Tribune and wrote for Newsweek, the New York Times and many other publications.

Douglas began his remarks by describing their first meeting 16 years ago on the campus of the University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana, where her parents were professors and where Chang was studying journalism.

"She was a strikingly beautiful girl who carried herself like a queen," Douglas said. "I was struck by the intensity of her eyes. I'll remember the way she looked at me forever."

He added: "At 20, she knew what she wanted to do with her life. And I knew immediately that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her."
...

ChenZan

11-20-2004, 02:52 PM

has anyone seen this dvd yet?
http://www.xploitedcinema.com/dvds/dvds.asp?title=3322

i heard about it today and am thinking about getting it. Its supposedly grusome and graphic like the Rape of Nanking book. They catagorize it in horror genre on amazon.com.

kamenriderv3

11-26-2004, 01:52 PM

Nanjing Massacre manga to be modified

Publisher Shueisha Inc. said Nov. 11 that it will delete or modify parts of a comic depicting the Nanjing Massacre that were carried by its weekly manga edition, when it is published in book form, after assembly members complained that the slaughter never happened.
"The lack of prudence in selecting and verifying the materials for the comic has caused misunderstanding among readers," the publisher and the comic's author, Hiroshi Motomiya, said in a statement printed in the latest edition of Weekly Young Jump.

The 21 pages featuring "inappropriate scenes" will be deleted or modified.

This decision comes after a group of 37 local assembly members complained that passages from Kuni ga Moeru ("The Country is Burning") printed in the magazine's Sept. 16 and 22 editions "distorted history" by describing Japanese soldiers massacring civilians in Nanjing in 1937.

The lawmakers claim there was no massacre.

Kuni ga Moeru, a cartoon serial carried in the weekly magazine since November 2002, is a fictional account of the life of a bureaucrat in the turbulent early part of the Showa Era (1926-1989).

Shueisha, which has suspended the serial since October, said no date has been fixed for its resumption.

The Japan Times Weekly: Nov. 20, 2004

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/weekly/news/nn2004/nn20041120a6.htm

35ft6

05-23-2005, 04:23 AM

Leaving the Atrocity Exhibit
Historians remember the author of The Rape of Nanking

by Robert Ito
May 17th, 2005 1:34 PM

What will her legacy be?: Iris Chang
photo: Global Alliance for Preserving the History of World War II in Asia

Iris Chang first heard stories about the Nanking massacre as a young girl. During World War II, her parents told her, Japanese soldiers had slaughtered babies with bayonets. The Yangtze River had run red with blood; thousands of Chinese civilians had been tortured and raped. They were grotesque tales, almost fantastical in their horror. How could such things happen, she wondered, and yet not result in a single book about it in the public libraries in her hometown of Champaign-Urbana, Illinois? Years later, in 1994, Chang attended a conference commemorating the victims of the massacre, which had taken place in December of 1937. On the walls were poster-sized photos confirming the truth of those childhood stories. "Nothing prepared me for these pictures," she later wrote. "Stark black-and-white images of decapitated heads, bellies ripped open, and nude women forced by their rapists into various pornographic poses, their faces contorted into unforgettable expressions of agony and shame. In a single blinding moment I recognized the fragility of not just life but the human experience itself." Rest here (http://www.villagevoice.com/vls/0520,vls3,64037,21.html).

happy

05-23-2005, 05:00 AM

http://fury.com/images/weblog/kleenex.jpg

bosozoku

05-23-2005, 07:42 AM

i just read it, good book

GONG_LORD

05-23-2005, 08:41 AM

and you wonder why Karma served up such a spicy atomic bomb meatball.

Originally posted by 35ft6
Rest here (http://www.villagevoice.com/vls/0520,vls3,64037,21.html).

stryfe

05-23-2005, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by GONG_LORD
and you wonder why Karma served up such a spicy atomic bomb meatball.
how is that karmic?

invictus

05-23-2005, 12:21 PM

I just read an issue of Audrey that talked about Iris and her depression. Kinda sad. Had she stuck around a lot longer, she could have made even more waves. We need more people like her, but with fewer chemical imbalances.

happy

05-23-2005, 01:24 PM

I think so too: I'm running low on kindling.

Aser

05-24-2005, 03:39 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/asia_pac/05/china_japan/html/introduction.stm

relations are at an all time low, with the nanking massacre playing an integral part. However, the pressure points underly a few interesting subplots. I really don't think there'll be an amicable end to this saga. Asians are some stubborn ass people, with neither side wanting to lose "face". With China's growing foothold in dominance vs Japan's stagnant economy, it's become a tug of war power struggle. No doubt these recent demonstrations are tools used by the Chinese governement to incite nationalistlic unity.

I really don't know what to make of the situation...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41028000/gif/_41028003_east_china_sea_map203.gif

quietquiet

11-07-2005, 10:16 PM

This Wednesday will mark the one year anniversary of her death. She's still sorely missed. I don't know if this SF Chronicle article (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/17/CMGCNBQRRP1.DTL) has been posted already, but it nearly tears me apart every time I read it.

kamenriderv3

08-14-2006, 05:21 PM

plans for a movie based on chang's book is in the works.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060814/film_nm/china_japan_movie_dc

"We hope we can make the film a classic on a massacre in the Second World War, just like 'Schindler's List' about the miserable experience of Jewish people during the war," Gerald Green, the American producer of the movie, was quoted as saying.

SDP

08-14-2006, 05:40 PM

It'll be the 'Feel-Good' movie of the year!

No story is too grotesque for Hollywood, as long as the victims bloody corpses can be smelted down into silver.

BOON

08-14-2006, 06:30 PM

Most westerns are not familiar with this in the least, it wouldnt be all bad.

fmstlr

08-14-2006, 06:33 PM

it's a plan to RE-start some hatorade between the asian nations, as a way to slow down their seemingly concerted efforts to steal US jobs.

kamenriderv3

08-14-2006, 06:51 PM

adds fuel to the fire because the japanese prime minister went to the war shrine again.

Thirty Nine

08-16-2006, 09:45 PM

...symbolically on the 15th. Its neighbors, including China`s state-controlled media, would like to emphasize the fact he went and dismiss everything else that was said.

Cowering and crawling is equally prominent as complaining and bitching--as China asends to promience via its robust economy (including selling their trademark faulty and cheap arms worldwide)...if it were meant to be, then Japan`s gonna get theirs, aren`t they?

The Chinese are generally peace-loving, love the "Homie Discount" like the rest of us and will lie to your face in business. Japan are equally cunning, but anonymous, faceless and don`t fucking own up.

Poor Iris Chang, sucks she felt she had to go the way she did. Her work is great.

As for most comments on the Asia issue, it`s pretty one-sided, armchair kinda shit none of us really know about...except that for some reason many Chinese and Korean parents hate the Japanese.

BOON

08-16-2006, 10:34 PM

Yeah, its funny how much stuff flies by in a generation. The masses are mostly pop culture folk anyhow and most Chinese people, esp. Hongers, love japa steelo stuff.

But like I said, most of the westerns, incl. the majority of asian americans dont know about this so....

But time's time, the internments have been addressed by the American and Canadian govs. The Germans have way back obviously, Japan's gotta get with the times!

kamenriderv3

01-27-2007, 10:39 AM

http://brainmind.com/nanking.html

lifelibertyland

01-27-2007, 02:34 PM

I read this book a while ago. I think it's very important for younger students to read this as well as Senso in order to gain percpectives from both sides.
Very good book imo, but it did make me pretty mad.
Mad that it happened, that people deny it and that in highschool all you learn about is eastern Europe during WW2, but anything in SE Asia is left to a single paragraph, if that.

bones2380

02-26-2007, 08:39 PM

A bit of knowledge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoW2WYdOsvg)

-Not 56k friendly-

I try not to hate but watching old footage just stirs up the emotions!

bones2380

02-26-2007, 09:38 PM

Hear it from Iris herself! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8fzbUoQdio)

Got to love youtube.

I never had the chance to hear her speak, so this is as close as I will get to hear her.

BOON

03-31-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by kamenriderv3
plans for a movie based on chang's book is in the works.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060814/film_nm/china_japan_movie_dc

"We hope we can make the film a classic on a massacre in the Second World War, just like 'Schindler's List' about the miserable experience of Jewish people during the war," Gerald Green, the American producer of the movie, was quoted as saying.

Anyone know what the deal with this movie is at the moment?

There is a page on imdb for a "Rape on Nanking" - 2008 http://imdb.com/title/tt0926131/ with nothing on it and there's also a "Nanking" set to come out in 2007: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0893356/

Must say though that it irritates me whenever my average chinese friend decides to get tokenly politically conscious from time to time and a conversation just happens to stir to the japanese ww atrocities and they always turn and look at me being the only japanese guy in the group and i know its just what people do whener your nationality is in topic but i always get the feeling like they feel good about themselves because they know something about history even though just found out about the whole thing like a week ago and im like "yeah, man, have you heard that they're making the rape of nanking into a movie" and they're like "what's that?" or how i say its a shame that the jap gov wont acknowledge it but that its also a shame that the chinese gov are using the survivors as pawns in a political game and they're like "huh?"

i guess is really is a good thing that chang is bringing this to the forefront not just to get the fucking japanese gov to finally acknowledge this but so that the average chinese person over here can learn about what happened up to WWII as well.

kamenriderv3

03-31-2007, 02:18 PM

i read about some updated info a few days ago. let me search for it.

on a side note, iris chang's statue...

http://english.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2007/03/31/070202042ta_3.jpg

http://english.cri.cn/3086/2007/03/31/60@211219.htm

kamenriderv3

03-31-2007, 02:27 PM

ok i found it but not the same movie. just same topic.

the article is about the china-approved version of the story. more than likely, this will have a different perspective because of the politics and national outlook on the topic.

lu chuan, who directed kekexili, will direct "nanjing! nanjing!". kekexili was a decent movie btw.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-03/28/content_5909260.htm

...

Lu said he hoped to shoot "a true Chinese war and disaster film".

The movie would feature a scene in which 40,000 people were killed, Lu said told a Chinese newspaper at the end of last year.

The cost of production was expected to surpass 200 million yuan (25.64 million U.S. dollars), and would include a reconstruction of 1930s Nanjing in Jilin province at a cost of 16 million yuan (2.05 million U.S. dollars).

It is one of four movies on the Nanjing Massacre this year, the 70th anniversary of the atrocity, but it is the only one yet approved by the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television.

Lu studied in a military school for four years in Nanjing. "When I was in the school, I heard so many stories about Nanjing Massacre, and I have wanted since then to shoot a film about the event."

...