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unhip
11-18-2004, 09:09 AM
have any primates besides gorillas been taught sign language?

have they tried to have a whole colony of gorillas or whichever that can speak to each other this way?

if chimpanzees are 99% genetically similar to humans, does this mean they have roughly 99% of the same sort of intelligence? i assume not, but if we could test a chimp IQ, would some of them not be smarter than some of our dumb people?

11-18-2004, 09:17 AM
ew ew monkeys and apes *shudder*

ocd
11-18-2004, 09:25 AM
Hey, be nice CDF. Monkeys are teh rule.

I personally know a few people who would probably lose a checkers match against an intelligent ape.

I don't think apes need sign language to communicate to eachother, that's more of a talking to another species (us) thing.

Although, I don't know if they've tried teaching one ape sign language, then releasing him or her back into his group. What's the term for a pack of apes? Let's call them a "gang".

How would you test an apes IQ?

11-18-2004, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by ocd
Hey, be nice CDF. Monkeys are teh rule.



I know, I know, I am the only person on the planet that finds them disgusting.

11-18-2004, 09:28 AM
I love apes as much as the next guy, but they should do something about those big nasty exposed asses..

yamchild
11-18-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by unhip
if chimpanzees are 99% genetically similar to humans, does this mean they have roughly 99% of the same sort of intelligence? i assume not, but if we could test a chimp IQ, would some of them not be smarter than some of our dumb people?

most assuredly not. keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of our DNA are "junk DNA", which are more like spaceholders that don't express specific genes, though more researchers nowadays think we previously underestimated the functionality of junk DNAs, which may serve regulatory functions. so alot of the genes we have in common with chimps don't do all that much.

also, not all genes have the same level of impact when expressed. certain genes regulate several other genes, or express a gene that is key in a particular pathway. so even though we differ only slightly from chimps genetically, those few genes that differ have a huge impact.

i think i read somewhere that chimps have the intelligence of human toddlers.

yamchild
11-18-2004, 09:34 AM
i think the few apes that have been taught sign language are exceptionally intelligent, or exceptionally amenable to training. i've never heard of an entire community group of apes that know sign language.

but monkeys and apes are known to transmit "culture". in japan there's a band of macaques that all learned to wash their fruit in the river from one female.

ocd
11-18-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by yamchild

but monkeys and apes are known to transmit "culture". in japan there's a band of macaques that all learned to wash their fruit in the river from one female. Oh that's awesome! I wonder how far you could push hygene in them.

akuma
11-18-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by CoupDeFeu


I know, I know, I am the only person on the planet that finds them disgusting.

you're a big dumb monkey like the rest of us humans.


hating your own is more disgusting than any exposed ass or fecal smell.

11-18-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by akuma


you're a big dumb monkey like the rest of us humans.


hating your own is more disgusting than any exposed ass or fecal smell.

oh, thank you, I see the light

key_loser
11-18-2004, 09:50 AM
That one sort of monkey that learns how to go fishing for termites by putting a long blade of grass into a termite hill and chomping on the termites that crawl onto it- I can't remember which species-but they're awesome.

akuma
11-18-2004, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by CoupDeFeu
ew ew monkeys and apes *shudder*

Originally posted by CoupDeFeu
yes, be racist, that will help




will you please make up your mind

akuma
11-18-2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by CoupDeFeu


oh, thank you, I see the light


not until the monkey finally comes out your ass

11-18-2004, 09:53 AM
what's your beef?

akuma
11-18-2004, 09:54 AM
beef?!

now you're gonna get invictus mad.

11-18-2004, 09:56 AM
a group of apes is called a shrewdness?

i thought it would be a tribe...

key_loser
11-18-2004, 09:57 AM
Dear typing primates, please take what one another says with a grain assault. Why can't everybody just be thankful that sharks and alligators aren't eating them alive?

11-18-2004, 09:58 AM
i don't consider myself a monkey or a descendent of them

ocd
11-18-2004, 10:04 AM
Haha, grain assault!

akuma
11-18-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
i don't consider myself a monkey or a descendent of them


oh yeah, evolution is total bogus

invictus
11-18-2004, 10:15 AM
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/images/ft_hdr.1.jpg

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/index.html

ocd
11-18-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by akuma



oh yeah, evolution is total bogus Actually, Darwin never said people were decended from monkeys. That was a tactic used by people who were trying to smear him as a quack. See Invictus' link for even more info.

akuma
11-18-2004, 10:20 AM
i'm quite familiar with darwin's arguments and wasn't referring to him specifically with my evolution comment

11-18-2004, 10:22 AM
for a long time people thought we evolved from horses

11-18-2004, 10:23 AM
i personally feel that people evolved

from all different sorts of animals,

some of which don't exist any longer

i also feel that the human spirit was involved

not just environment or genetics

ocd
11-18-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by akuma
i'm quite familiar with darwin's arguments and wasn't referring to him specifically with my evolution comment :cool:

key_loser
11-18-2004, 10:23 AM
Most of evolutionary theory has been worked out by people who weren't Darwin.

11-18-2004, 10:24 AM
how many animals resemble felines?

-retractable claws

-split iris

-barbed penis

-combing tongue

key_loser
11-18-2004, 10:25 AM
All different sorts of animals? Like, part from hummingbirds, part from mollusks, part from elephants? I'm not trying to be a dick, I just can't tell what you're saying.

11-18-2004, 10:27 AM
yeah, exactly like that

you're a baboon dick, horse ankle, bird butt

11-18-2004, 10:28 AM
haven't you ever met a person that reminded you of an animal?

key_loser
11-18-2004, 10:30 AM
Grain assault, grain assault.

ocd
11-18-2004, 10:32 AM
The wheat is attacking from the sky, WWII-era bi-planes with nose-mounted machine guns!

The oatmeal is attacking from the sea! Submarines! Boil the water! Add the honey! Honey, do we have any strawberries left!

key_loser
11-18-2004, 10:36 AM
I think people remind me of animals since, y'know...

they are animals and all.

fmstlr
11-18-2004, 10:36 AM
http://dailynews.att.net/news/aphome/041118/images/clinton_library20V.jpg

yamchild
11-18-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by key_loser
That one sort of monkey that learns how to go fishing for termites by putting a long blade of grass into a termite hill and chomping on the termites that crawl onto it- I can't remember which species-but they're awesome.

i think that's chimps. chimps are gnarly. bonobos are even gnarlier. they are the homo-copulating, peace-loving version of chimps. :cool:

yamchild
11-18-2004, 10:42 AM
people aren't evolved from modern-day monkeys. people share a common ancestor with modern-day monkeys. big difference.

11-18-2004, 10:48 AM
don't all living things on this planet share one common ancestral source then?

yamchild
11-18-2004, 10:49 AM
yeah, but our common ancestor is quite a bit more recent than, say, the common ancestor between us and trees.

ocd
11-18-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
don't all living things on this planet share one common ancestral source then? This is actually a topic on its own!

It depends on if you believe that life evolved on earth without any interference from outside life (I'm talking a germ on a meteor here, not little green men) or not. If you believe the little speck on the meteor sparked something, then it could have been several different comets or meteors with little specs on them, all evolving seperately.

Not that I do, though.

I wish I was more articulate.

11-18-2004, 10:56 AM
but humans are totally capable of deciphering

the origin of all life on this planet

and on an internet discussion forum

no less

yamchild
11-18-2004, 10:56 AM
separate evolution is high unlikey, considering how similar in basic structure all cells are.

FDM
11-18-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
for a long time people thought we evolved from horses
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/politics/articles/2002-12-01/images/ap_kerry_lg.jpghttp://www.bbc.co.uk/totp/features/wallpaper/640x480/cher.jpg

IT'S TEH TROOF.

11-18-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by funkydrunknmonk
IT'S TEH TROOF.

neigh!

ocd
11-18-2004, 11:00 AM
Didn't they find some kind of life form that was not carbon-based, something about superhot sea vents?

11-18-2004, 11:00 AM
a completely new and original life form

ocd
11-18-2004, 11:01 AM
I remember its name was a combination of one or two letters and three numbers.

key_loser
11-18-2004, 11:11 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_chauvinism

from^

"Carbon chauvinism is the viewpoint in xenobiology that carbon is necessarily the basis of all life on other planets, as carbon's chemical and thermodynamic properties render it far superior to all other elements. There are, however, several other possible bases for life with varying degrees of plausibility."

"Chlorine is sometimes proposed as a biological alternative to oxygen, either in carbon-based biologies or hypothetical non-carbon-based ones. "

I haven't heard of any non-carbon based life, I would imagine it would have to be a very recent discovery to not be mentioned here.

11-18-2004, 11:15 AM
i can't seem to find anything about it

i do remember hearing of it though

j_simone
11-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by ocd
Didn't they find some kind of life form that was not carbon-based, something about superhot sea vents?
i remember hearing about deep sea organisms that used sulfur as their energy source... i'm not sure about the non-carbon thing though...

11-18-2004, 11:35 AM
yeah they process chemicals instead of sunlight

chemosynthesis or something

yamchild
11-18-2004, 11:36 AM
i think you guys are talking about organisms that live anaerobically around hot sea vents. those things are still carbon-based tho. they just don't live on oxygen like the rest of us freaks.

11-18-2004, 11:37 AM
they breathe sulfur and produce methane?

key_loser
11-18-2004, 11:42 AM
Instead of being dependent on nutrients from photosynthetic reactions (like most critters on Earth) there are ecosystems near deep-sea vents that thrive based on microbes that are chemosynthetic. A slightly larger critter eats the chemosynethic microbes, and a slightly larger critter eats that critter.

It's just sunless living, not carbonless living.

unhip
11-18-2004, 12:01 PM
may i interject for a moment and express my personal satisfaction that this is probably the most instantly popular thread i've made... 4 pages in a few hours. self-esteem, yaaaayyy

unhip
11-18-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by invictus
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/images/ft_hdr.1.jpg

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0411/feature1/index.html

i saw that article. it says "was darwin wrong?" on the cover, then the first page of the article just says "No."

unhip
11-18-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by yamchild
separate evolution is high unlikey, considering how similar in basic structure all cells are.

it still could have evolved from two of the same sort of cells on different meteors or whatever. speaking of which, i still don't really understand microorganisms on meteors. do they wear seatbelts? how's the weather on there?

unhip
11-18-2004, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
i personally feel that people evolved

from all different sorts of animals,

some of which don't exist any longer

i also feel that the human spirit was involved

not just environment or genetics

i'm sorry but, how would this happen? this sounds like something founded on similar grounds as bloodletting, mice from hay, and gods. does this mean that peacocks and wildebeests had to get it on and somehow produce a child at some point?

one of the cornerstones of macroevolution is the fact that... most species can't reproduce with another species. when that happens, it is the primary mechanism that creates a new species.

Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
how many animals resemble felines?

-retractable claws

-split iris

-barbed penis

-combing tongue

skeletally, felines and primates are pretty similar. i think there's might be a missing link between them, or whatever. the earliest felines lived in trees.

11-18-2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by unhip
i'm sorry but, how would this happen? this sounds like something founded on similar grounds as bloodletting, mice from hay, and gods. does this mean that peacocks and wildebeests had to get it on and somehow produce a child at some point?

one of the cornerstones of macroevolution is the fact that... most species can't reproduce with another species. when that happens, it is the primary mechanism that creates a new species.

macroevolution? primary mechanism?

ya lost me.

i mean something more along the lines of

animal-like, not ape-like, humanoids

that evolved into different human bloodlines

over a very, very, long time

that sort of thing

unhip
11-18-2004, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox


macroevolution? primary mechanism?

ya lost me.

i mean something more along the lines of

animal-like, not ape-like, humanoids

that evolved into different human bloodlines

over a very, very, long time

that sort of thing

how would they mate? how would the genetic material be inserted into the human bloodline?

like, would an ostrich be boning homo erectus?

key_loser
11-18-2004, 12:40 PM
Are you saying you believe that, say, the critters that became humans diverged from the critters that became monkey-like primates back when, say, our common ancestor was more cat/dog/bear ancestor-like? And that similarities between humans and monkey-like primates are from an INCREDIBLY long episode of parallel evolution?

ocd
11-18-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by j_simone

i remember hearing about deep sea organisms that used sulfur as their energy source... i'm not sure about the non-carbon thing though... Oh that's right!

11-18-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by key_loser
Are you saying you believe that, say, the critters that became humans diverged from the critters that became monkey-like primates back when, say, our common ancestor was more cat/dog/bear ancestor-like? And that similarities between humans and monkey-like primates are from an INCREDIBLY long episode of parallel evolution?

'xactly what i'm sayin'

quit bonin' them ostriches!

key_loser
11-18-2004, 12:49 PM
Was there anything in particular that makes you think that - fossil record wise? Or is it more of a hunch?

key_loser
11-18-2004, 12:50 PM
You edited!

11-18-2004, 12:53 PM
yeah, just a hunch, and because i like the thought of it.

is there some ape-man fossil record i'm not aware of?

ja.net
11-18-2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
but humans are totally capable of deciphering

the origin of all life on this planet

and on an internet discussion forum

no less

how much longer

are you going to talk

like sleepy but

spacier

key_loser
11-18-2004, 01:07 PM
I don't know how much of the fossil record you're familiar with.




I'm not aware of any fossils that suggest ancestral cat/dog/bear to man lineage.

11-18-2004, 01:09 PM
but there is ape to man fossil record?

11-18-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by ja.net


how much longer

are you going to talk

like sleepy but

spacier

the introverted ninja?

do i sound like him?

ocd
11-18-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by key_loser
I don't know how much of the fossil record you're familiar with.




I'm not aware of any fossils that suggest ancestral cat/dog/bear to man lineage. Might depend on how far you want to go back! Also depends on how accurate you want it to be.
I've seen some nova special (I think it was Nova) where they were tracking down the Missing Link. No, not that one. The one that first left the ocean. I'll try to track down a link.

key_loser
11-18-2004, 01:23 PM
It isn't "ape to man," that's not how the idea works. It's not like modern men came from modern apes, we have a common ancestor. A common ancestor much more recent than the common ancestor that we share with cats/dogs/bears.

This is where you can continue to ask for the skeletal remains of every hominid and every ape and the "missing link." And I'll turn my pockets inside out and shrug because, obviously, that's not how the fossil record works.

j_simone
11-18-2004, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by ocd
Might depend on how far you want to go back! Also depends on how accurate you want it to be.
I've seen some nova special (I think it was Nova) where they were tracking down the Missing Link. No, not that one. The one that first left the ocean. I'll try to track down a link.
yeah, i think that life originally came from the ocean... some went to land... some organisms stayed in the water & evolved into fish & other aquatic things... some of the land animals went back into the oceans - eg: whales & other sea mammals...
really interesting stuff!
what really gets me is that one picture in just about every bio book that compares the embryos of humans, chickens, whales, pigs, etc... it's freaky how similar they all are...

ocd
11-18-2004, 02:58 PM
Hay hay hay!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4014351.stm

naylomo
11-18-2004, 06:30 PM
"During the Miocene, Earth really was the planet of the apes.

As many as 100 different ape species roamed the Old World, from France to China in Eurasia and from Kenya to Namibia in Africa. "

Sweet. Never thought of that before...

martin
11-18-2004, 06:52 PM
Planet of the Apes, indeed. I suppose it still is.

11-19-2004, 05:32 AM
show us your tits (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/sci_nat_enl_1100731127/img/1.jpg)

35ft6
11-20-2004, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by unhip
if chimpanzees are 99% genetically similar to humans, does this mean they have roughly 99% of the same sort of intelligence? i assume not, but if we could test a chimp IQ, would some of them not be smarter than some of our dumb people? Maybe? But we're talking about an exceptionally mentally handicapped person. "And so what we've shown is that humans and chimpanzees are actually more similar to each other than either is to any of the other apes," he told BBC News Online. Interesting... Genetically, people share almost all the same genes - 99.9 percent, according to Peggy Lemaux, associate Cooperative Extension specialist in plant biotechnology at the University of California, Berkeley.

However, Lemaux told the 1,000 attending CAPCA's annual conference in Anaheim, humans also share genes with other living things. For example, people and tomatoes share as much as 60 percent of the same genes. Very interesting...

35ft6
11-20-2004, 07:32 AM
1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God: "Miracles are spontaneous, they cannot be summoned, but come of themselves" (Katherine Anne Porter).

2. One that excites admiring awe. I agree that it's quite awesome.