Holy Shit at the WTC

[neku74]

jesus christ. i was on my way into the building today and someone was pointing down 5th avenue. so i looked up and saw the wtc engulfed in smoke. don't know the whole story, but apparently it was a terrorist act, a plane (or 2 planes) was hijacked and crashed right into the building.
does anyone know any loungers that work at the wtc? people outside are in tears or rushing frantically to reach loved ones working there.
hope that all you loungers and your loved ones are safe.

[kid_robotron]

Just saw the live pictures on BBC news. Hope all the NY robots are safe and sound. It must come as a great shock to all u guys in America, If it was a deliberate act of terrorism I bet George W will go all out to catch em.

Be safe y'all

[neku74]

thanks shaw & kid. i'm okay, but i'm just calling around and panicking a bit cuz i don't know exactly where all of my friends work. one i can't get in touch with but i can't remember if he works at wtc or not, but that doesn't mean anything happened to him. a lot of people here at my work have family and friends that work there, so its just chaos.

but i'm alright. apparently they have spotted a third plane and everyone is scared shitless here. i don't know if i should stay here or try to go home to brooklyn. they may shut down all public transportation.

holy shit, now someone just said that the pentagon just went up in flames, as well as some other govt building. what the hell is going on????????

[neku74]

okay, now they have just shut down all public transportation. no one can come in, no one can get out of the city. and now they have those reports of a third plane. i feel like a sitting duck. no one is working, we're all just sitting around the tv since we can't fucking go home.
what the fuuuuuuuucccckkk?????

[SweetArse]

HOLY FUCK, WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!
This is surreal. Anyone in a landmark building right now, around the country, you better go home. Sears Tower has been evacuated.

[bugdog]

i just heard that 8 planes are missing and one of the towers has just collapsed.
who is doing this...any why?
i feel like crying , it must be pandemonium for all the people in there.

[neku74]

i didn't hear about the 8 planes. but the 2nd plane that crashed was caught on camera and happened about 10 min after the 1st. and that plane crashed into the middle of the 2nd twin tower, weakening the entire structure and eventually causing it to collapse. people had not been completely evacuated either.

we can't even evacuate here - i don't know which is scarier being stuck in the middle of an nyc stampede or sitting here waiting for the next plane. but i work right near the empire state building + rockefeller center.

also, i heard that a plane was intercepted in brooklyn, not far from where i live.

[jen_er_ator]

it's so surreal to watch the footage of the plane crashing into the wtc. it's strange how they can just show people die like that and only report what type of plane it was and where it was coming from and going to.

people in government take this shit too lightly. they were reporting how there was no indication that the u.s. would have been a target, only places over seas. like it doesn't matter who will be attacked, as long as it's not "us." fuck this "us" shit...it has to be the whole world united, not just an arrogant united states.

[jen_er_ator]

oh yeah....i hope all you nyc peeps are safe and well. i'm not a praying type, but my prayers are with you.

[bugdog]

i hope all you usa people are safe and well, i cant imagine what its like for you guys.
i sitting here shaking

[Asharak]

Well, I'm watching the news right now, and if I'm not mistaken it looks like both buildings have collapsed. Shit, it seems as if I've been watching a movie for the past hour, but sadly, this is for real.
I hope you New Yorker loungers are alright.

[Edited by Waco Jesus on 09-11-2001 at 07:36 AM]

[Mike Van]

Love from Melbourne, hope everyone is ok..

[kid_robotron]

It just keeps getting worse.
Its nothing strange for terrorists to attack significant buildings etc in the UK, we've been dealing with it for 30 years. But I've never seen anything of this magnitude. Apparently impromptu celebrations in Palestine, ppl firing guns in the air.

This is serious global shit.

[Panthor]

Airspace in all major cities closed. military jets on patrol. another plane went down near pittsburg. all international flights into us, diverted to cananda. we need to bomb somebody... NOW.

hope all you nyc robots are okay

[Zaius]

I can't get my mind around it.

[neku74]

complete chaos in nyc. people are stampeding the streets. everyone is standing around, not knowing what to do. cell phones aren't working. i saw the two towers collapse on tv, and everyone just gasped. so i went outside and stood on 5th avenue and looked down. and the towers were just...gone. i pass those towers all of the time, going home in my car. i love that drive, down the fdr going to brooklyn, the view of the financial district is so exhilarating. and now its all fucking gone...

[kid_robotron]

Obviously as I am not in america I cant share your anxiety at the moment so much, but I'm scared of the implications of these attacks. You can't just step up to George W like that, the guys a psycho.I can't see US taking terrorism as lightly as some countries.

[Panthor]

canada is on airlockdown. no air travel in or out of n america dayam

[blink]

fucking hell....this is just taking things too far....i hope this is not the start of WWIII and hope that the US govertment will not take any drastic action to start a world war. i just got home from work and this??!!!

shaw, neku, Ryan, falcor, panthor and everyone else in NY area, hope you guys and your family is safe and sound. I'm gotta call my mom now, she's in Chinatown.

[ironmonkey]

please be safe.

[Decadent1]

<pre><font size=2>Shit man my cousin works in one of those buildings. My dad is trying to call but can't get through.
I hope she is all right. Much love to the NY GR heads. Keep hope alive.</pre></font size=2>

[yangnome]

lets take this shit to the chat room if you have time...i cant keep up

[Panthor]

we must squash binladen we should have done before

[kid_robotron]

Originally posted by Solipsism
shit, I can see and smell the smoke here in Brooklyn!
CNN has fuckin Tom Clancy speakin. What the fuck! Stupid news stations think this is some fuckin book.

[Edited by Solipsism on 09-11-2001 at 08:54 AM]

Watching it on TV seems so unreal, almost like watching a movie.

[Torasan]

Looks like all the attacks are directed on the East Coast only. One plane apparently a 747 has crashed in Pittsburg PA. (not confirmed) Nothing going on in other parts of the country so far.
Actually I am really worried about a chemical or biological attack. The CDC has been alerted and have report no bio attacks yet. The important thing is to stay calm and stay away from possible targets (airports, large government structures until thing cool down)
Take care,
Torasan

[neku74]

they are also waging small scale war as well. a "device" was found in stuyvesant high school, right near the towers. also i heard rumors of something at nyu medical center, but i haven't heard anything else about it so i'm doubting that one.

yeah, i feel like i'm watching a bad big-budget movie like independence day. what's even worse, though, is seeing that shit live. i never usually cry, but i almost burst into tears seeing that second tower go down.

[angrykitty]

this may be the most fucked up thing i've ever seen. i really hope you people in NYC are ok.

[Torasan]

. For monthes the Red Cross has been short of blood.
Especially if you have a rare blood type you can donate blood to help out.

Red Cross appeals for blood: 1-800-448-3543

Torasan

[Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima]

How about we get a head count of all New Yorker Giant Robots out there. Let us know you are OK!

[cellout]

holy fuqn shit. this was the first time in weeks i've gotten up before noon. and I caught the second kamikaze plane.
peace to new yorkers. i hope everybody and whomever they care about is okay.
get gas and groceries, and call your parents, everybody.

^c

[angoraphobia]

who are we warring against???? its too quiet....its erie...scary.....its like....im afraid theres going to be a second wave.....i work in a government building here near LA and im weirded and freaked out by all of this.....

[Lain]

Is everyone okay? I hope no one from here and anyones close family got hurt, please chime in if you or anyone you know from here isn't counted for. I was just released from all my classes cause the head person in DE said so. I don't know the whole dorm is in a panic and all thats stuff. I hope we're all doing well, and thats no one is hurt or gets hurt. Jaa-mata minasan

[fmstlr]

50 years of bad karma all coming back in 1 single package.

I hope that W. doesn't respond with the usual John Wayne tough guy shit that the US has been fronting all these years. That would only escalate things or set us up for even more terrorism.

[lotto]

i think that we should be careful before placing the blame on any particular group or nationality for this sickening act of terrorism. there are unconfirmed reports of groups that are claiming responsibility, as well as plenty of rumors/assumptions. it's easy to point a finger. take care NY my prayers are with you guys.

[archonemis]

Watched the second plane hit and went out to get gas and groceries (I wasn't the only robot with that idea as it turns out). I don't think LA will be attacked (especially this late in the 'game'), but I'd like to have some sense of control.

It looks as though America is no longer a sanctuary. We are no longer untouchable. Now we get to wonder what George W. Bush will do about it.

Be safe robots.

[remotecontrolalligator]

http://forums.off-topic.net/showthread.php?s=35589bfa650f652b40a65f5ed197a9ba&threadid=93935


"The worse thing was to see 4 people end their lives by jumping out the window of like the 75-85th floor and splatter on impact....I will never forget that."

[montyburnz]

My cousin called me from New York this morning with the bad news that the towers had been hit. As I watched the coverage
the news kept getting worse and worse. This is a nightmare.

I wish all of you in NYC the very best. I'm glad you're ok and I hope your friends and loved ones are too.

Let's remember that Terrorism succeeds if we give into
fear and give up our ideals and liberties. Let's not speculate on who is responsible. After the Oklahoma city bombings Middle Eastern terrorists were blamed when it was not the case. When we do find out who did this: then its
payback time.

[archonemis]

I wouldn't want to remember that shit.

[remotecontrolalligator]

Originally posted by Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima
How about we get a head count of all New Yorker Giant Robots out there. Let us know you are OK!


seriously!

this is fuckin rediculous!

[Simon Paradise]

fucking shit. i hope all of you all alright...theres not much else i can say... fuck.

Hi, just so you knw, there is a chat going on in the GR chat room right now.

[beefs2]

my girlfriend and i saw the 2nd plane crash into the building on the way to work. it was so surreal. all the stores are closed now. i work on 18th street, luckily, but my apartment is further downtown. it's so messed up. but some people at my work are just going on with their day.

[5.92]

Originally posted by Solipsism
Christ! It's fuckin unbelievable.
I have a friend that lives 5 blocks from there...and I've been trying to get in touch with him. Sister's freaking oiut cause she has friends that work in both buildings.

Another friend on the roof with binoculars said he saw people on top of the last building, just as it collapsed.
I'm glad youre o.k bro. You're the first of many people I instantly thought about when this shit went down.
Turns out my cousin was up in that shit. She works next to the world trade. She had shit all over her just like they showed on TV. Luckily shes aight. Some lady in a store let her call long distance. Good lookin store lady.

Falcor, Ryan and all you east coast cats I cant think of right now; I hope youre alright.

[Ryan]

To all the nyc area loungers..sound off please for those we got in touchwith already neku, sol, frog, paean, etc THANK GOD you guys are all right..i was just able to get onto a comp right now..its fucking madness even here in jersey..i was in UMDNJ hospital when it happened..PEOPLE literally STARTED wailing..i cant fucking beleive this..our teacher sent us home right away and we got the hell out of their, which is good cuz of all the fucking traffic and shit.
school got canceled so alot of my instructors are trying to head up there to see what they can do...FUCK! man..if i could id be there right beside them...oh man ... this is something that will be forever affect our way of life..

RIP to all those who have perished except those who planned it..i hope they burn in hell

[Zaius]

I just heard that all flights from oversea inbound to SFO have been escorted back by FIGHTER PLANES! They said a plane from Taiwan was escorted back and was told any deviation from the flight path and the plane would be fired upon.

[Ryan]

there have been f16 zooming over head for some time now..its crazy..
i have 6 cousins that work within walking distance of the wtc and theres no way i can get in touch with them at the moment..its fucking killing me

[johnny_sokko]

Yo just checking in if anyone cares to know, im safe

Im out of town up in albany right now.
I sat up here and watched the tower colapse, - disbelife,,, a horible sense of helplessness,,, and then puking at the realization of the terrible catastrophy that just happened before my eyes, then the panic of not being able to contact my family, did my dad leave for work yet? is my girlfriend's brother who lives in the area ok?

now i am comforted in knowing all my loved ones are safe. as i hope all yours are.
greatly saddened at the tremendous loss of innocent human life.

the world is fucked up


so many people dead
why?
for what?

[Ryan]

all projections of the number of dead are over at least 1000

[neku74]

i just had a panic attack b/c i discovered that a friend of mine works at morgan stanley, which had 3,500 employees at the wtc. i tore apart my apt looking for his phone # (his cell wasn't working) and finally found his home number.

his sister told me that he was in the 2nd tower on the 44th floor and was able to evacuate. oh my god, that was so close. i was supposed to have dinner with him this week, i haven't gone out of my way to see him for months and would have been so angry with myself if i never saw him again.

blink - any news on your mom?

[johnny_sokko]

i think it's more like 10,000

this is disgusting

Originally posted by Ryan
all projections of the number of dead are over at least 1000

[montyburnz]

Originally posted by johnny_sokko
i think it's more like 10,000

this is disgusting

Originally posted by Ryan
all projections of the number of dead are over at least 1000

Each tower holds 10,000 people, I believe.

[remotecontrolalligator]

quite a video... http://www.thehourly.com/wtc/plane_hitting.mpg


also here are pages i have found with picture/videos

http://www.xaqtly.com/wtc1.jpg (no index found, but change the last number from 1-60 to see the rest.


http://www.unspeakable.org/wtc


http://www.lehigh.edu/~wsc2/terror.htm


http://www.thehourly.com/wtc/

[johnny_sokko]

Kabul, Afghanistan is being bombed

[Salami Swami]

I can't speak.
I've seen these images hundreds of times throughout this whole thing, and I'm still completely frazzled.
This is easily the most heinous thing to go down, ever.

[Panthor]

kabul is most likely being attacked due to the civil war going on. at least that is what they are saying

[Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima]

Originally posted by Panthor
kabul is most likely being attacked due to the civil war going on. at least that is what they are saying

Pretty coincidental....my skepticism almost wants me to think that Bin Laden had nothing to do with the WTC like the US had nothing to do with Kabul. i dunno...

[phism]

i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

[Cha Sui Bao]

This is by far the most fucked up thing I have ever seen. This is just pure evil and there is no excuse for this. Those planes were basically human bombs. I hope all you NY robots are ok, please take care of yourself and be safe

[Ryan]

feck...I'm hearing so many PERSONAL horror stories its so fukin disturbing..its already been said before but if you can please PLEASE donate blood as soon as you can im going tomorrow..theres already a 3 hour wait

[blink]

Originally posted by neku74
i just had a panic attack b/c i discovered that a friend of mine works at morgan stanley, which had 3,500 employees at the wtc. i tore apart my apt looking for his phone # (his cell wasn't working) and finally found his home number.

his sister told me that he was in the 2nd tower on the 44th floor and was able to evacuate. oh my god, that was so close. i was supposed to have dinner with him this week, i haven't gone out of my way to see him for months and would have been so angry with myself if i never saw him again.

blink - any news on your mom?

no news yet, neku...but thanks for the concern....

[Asharak]

Originally posted by Solipsism
So, apparently Tom Clancy wrote a novel about a similar incident..plane being used as a bomb.

People get ideas from books.

Arafat is horified. But Palestinians are in the streets cheering. The horror of humans.

[Edited by Solipsism on 09-11-2001 at 09:25 AM]

Not just the Tom Clancy novel either. There was also a movie--a rather mediocre one--called The Siege that was made three years ago and it was about this sort of thing. It's funny how life imitates art. This is utter insanity, that's all I can say.

[Asharak]

Originally posted by Ryan
feck...I'm hearing so many PERSONAL horror stories its so fukin disturbing..its already been said before but if you can please PLEASE donate blood as soon as you can im going tomorrow..theres already a 3 hour wait

Believe it or not, they're actually setting up emergency blood drives here in Tampa for the victims in NYC. I can't even imagine the sheer chaos that's taking place where you're at.

[Edited by Waco Jesus on 10-30-2001 at 09:29 PM]

[Asharak]

Originally posted by phism
i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

Agreed. Although it would have helped if our illustrious U$ government had never supported the Taliban in the first place. What the jingoistic, racist preppy white Republican dicks don't want to admit is that this tragedy is what happens when our mistakes come back to bite us in the ass.

[phism]

Originally posted by Waco Jesus
Originally posted by phism
i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

Agreed. Although it would have helped if our illustrious U$ government had never supported the Taliban in the first place. What the jingoistic, racist preppy white Republican dicks don't want to admit is that this tragedy is what happens when our mistakes come back to bite us in the ass.

and we're about to make more mistakes, that will prompt more ass-biting.

what happened in yugoslavia?

[montyburnz]

Originally posted by mewmew
Top priority now is to make sure Ronald McDonald is safe. Has anyone seen Grimmace.

Hey Mewmew,

I notice a lot of what you have to say today isn't appropriate for the seriousness of the subject. Maybe this particular thread isn't for you. Why don't you start your own thread with your own view of the situation?

thanks.

[Asharak]

Originally posted by phism

what happened in yugoslavia?


Oh, we basically bombed a sovereign nation which never did any harm to the US.

[Willie D]

Originally posted by Waco Jesus
Originally posted by phism

what happened in yugoslavia?


Oh, we basically bombed a sovereign nation which never did any harm to the US.



Which was in defense of muslims if I remember correctly.


[Edited by Willie D on 09-11-2001 at 08:51 PM]

[Willie D]

Originally posted by Waco Jesus
Originally posted by phism
i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

Agreed. Although it would have helped if our illustrious U$ government had never supported the Taliban in the first place. What the jingoistic, racist preppy white Republican dicks don't want to admit is that this tragedy is what happens when our mistakes come back to bite us in the ass.


The US did not support the taliban, but rather the Mujahadin during the Soviet-Afghan conflict. They are not the same. After the war the Taliban ended up filling the power vaccuum. Maybe helping Afghanistan drive out the Soviets was a mistake but it was a factor in the weakening and dissolution of the eastern bloc.

[kidkamikazee]

I hope everyone is safe and doing alright in the aftermath. Some thoughts about all this that have been plaguing me all day:
First, we all know the US is going to retaliate with a fierceness... Perpetuating the cycle of violence that got us in this position in the first place.
But, what I'm fearing now, aside from merciless attacks on "Middle Eastern" countries, is the rise in hate crimes against Middle Eastern people here in the states. It's going to happen and it's a sickening thought.
Oh and Dubya. The cherry on the fudge sundae. JOY.

[phism]

Originally posted by Old_Skool_Yukio_Mishima
Originally posted by Panthor
kabul is most likely being attacked due to the civil war going on. at least that is what they are saying

Pretty coincidental....my skepticism almost wants me to think that Bin Laden had nothing to do with the WTC like the US had nothing to do with Kabul. i dunno...

yeah...there is always a chance of this being an easy way for someone else to pass the blame. but i doubt it. they'd have to be damn powerful. who knows, maybe even a first world country playing copycat. but either way, we've been after osama bin laden for a while, and might as well dispose of him now.

as for domestic racism, if i see any harassment, i'm going to regulate. i don't give a fuck anymore.

[jen_er_ator]

we have a large population of arab-americans here in michigan, and i hope that they don't have to suffer any verbal or physical attacks by any stupid fucks out here. the police have already rounded up a few dumbasses who were outside of an arab community center asking all the people if they were "loyal." what the fuck? alot of non-minority americans are straight up stupid sometimes.

well, i hope you are all well, and for the folks in newyork and d.c. take care of yourselves. peace to you all.

[archonemis]

If I see any Middle Easterners getting any shit from people I'm gonna give a piece of my mind. I've seen people get shit for things they didn't do. This could take a turn for the ugly very easily.

Robots> The Police over here are on full tactical alert. They're looking for excuses to pull people over. I don't want to hear about you guys getting into trouble. Be careful.

damn...just some scary ass shit

i found out about the attack this morning and got really really scared because my girlfriend works about 20 blocks from the wtc...

this is just amazing and horrific...all day i have been watching the film footage the bombing and it just doesnt seem real...i cant believe it. this is certainly going to change some things in international relations...especially given all the things that i have heard the suits in gov't say. they are all talking about how they will attack not only the ones responsible, but any country harboring individuals believed to be responsible...

my deepest regret to anyone who has lost someone in all of this...

[Ryan]

stop bickering in this thread . just quit it.

i'm hearing personal FIRSTHAND accounts constantly now from friends and family i dont think its really sinking yet for me and im already a mess, who knows what we're going to wake up to tomorrow and what we're going to have to do

peace to everyone

[5.92]

Originally posted by mewmew
Originally posted by Solipsism
Originally posted by mewmew
Yo, sir. I said I was sorry. What do you want.

Keep those fuckin snide remarks to yourself. I don't tolerate shit like that very well. Fellow Lougers here may not fuckin comment, but you can fuckin rest assured I'll rip you a new asshole if the stoopid ass remarks continue.

ok joe messageboard...
Go mace somebody fool.
Solipsism's seen or known people that have died. Shits deep bro. He's living that shit involuntarily.
Ease up out of respect.

[Shoujo~Dojo]

i feel for you poor guys in america but even down here in australia we cop a bit of shit

for example, i was just walking along at school today when this dickhead comes up to me and says "were gonna kill you and your country". although im not from midle east, i look very much like i am. im bout ready to put a hole in his head. should i? my girlfriend is in one of his classes and went off at him really bad for saying that shit to me.

[whiteywillpay]

Fark...a jet just flew over my house and damn, it made my skin crawl...

[bugdog]

im in work this morning in central london, i still feel shell shocked, i hope you nyc guys are o.k today.

central london has been declared a no-fly zone, its odd not having planes constantly overhead.kinda eerie.

im scared at whats going to happen, what bush is going to do next, there is no specific target to 'war' with, as it were.
im scared he could easily make a very volatile situation worse. tony blair has said we the uk will stand shoulder to shoulder with the usa in their descision. its very scary stuff.
i do think this is a huge wake up call for the states, and im not sure how bush etc will deal with it. its a huge wake up call that global shit does effect the states and they are no way invincible.
bush has to sit up and take note, but how?
thats what scares me.

[bugdog]

i keep hearing reports that 8 planes were hijaked yesterday, and 4 were shot down...these are unconfirmed reports from sky news. does anyone know anything about this?

[Mikio4]

Originally posted by SweetArse
It is scary that they hijacked the plane so easily. But really, how many of us would have gotten up to stop them? It could be 5 or 6 burly Habibs with box-cutters. They were saying on the news that all they had to do was send a message, cut one steward nice and bloody, and everyone would be frozen in their seats. Could the passengers have known they were going to fly into buildings? If they did, perhaps someone would've tried something. But WTF, this is all speculation. Everyone I know in the area made it out fine. We were uncomfortable just being in midtown.

Well it's impossible to say what one would do in a situation like that, but if they got on and started killing people right away as is being reported on the plane that crashed, it's a pretty good indication that they aren't intending to come out of it alive and if they aren't well…. The reason that plane crashed was becasue allegedly some passengers decided to try and take the hijackers on (according to cell phone calls made by a passenger), knowing that they were risking their lives. Some heroic shit, that. What's a Habib?

[utinni2]

Has anyone heard from Ryan or any of the other NY people, I know I don't know you NY folks well at all but I'm still concerned just lemme' know what's up. I couldn't get on to Fort Myer yesterday which is right next to the Pentagon and also where I live. Anyway I went straight to my brothers house on Boling AFB and we heard the helicopters and F-16's all over the fuckin' place. Shit is crazy out here especially with all the Military bases, alright well hope everyone is ok.

[Kenishiro]

It's pretty somber in the West Coast. You can just feel it in the air.

Well, Silicon Valley, that is...=(

[Torasan]

Japanese Americans Urge Calm Before Stereotyping Suspects

published Wednesday, September 12, 2001

By KENJI G. TAGUMA
Nichi Bei Times

Almost as instantly as a second commercial airliner — apparently hijacked by
terrorists — crashed into the other twin tower of the World Trade Center
Tuesday morning, government officials, commentators and news broadcasters
went on air to liken the terrorist attack to the bombing of Pearl Harbor 56
years ago and point the finger to Middle East terrorists.

Japanese Americans, who were forced into American concentration camps as a
result of racial hysteria following the bombing decades earlier, were quick
to warn about the danger of stereotyping the suspects.

“This is the most serious attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor,”
said NBC’s Tom Brokaw.

One commentator on Bay Area station KGO Radio called the attack the “Pearl
Harbor of Terrorism.”

That sort of rhetoric, says UC Berkeley history Professor Ronald Takaki, is
both irresponsible and harmful.

“Pearl Harbor stirred hatred against the people of Japan as well as
Americans of Japanese ancestry, and also an ultra nationistic fervor for
revenge,” said Takaki, who has written numerous books on multicultural
studies.

“By comparing the tragedy at the World Trade Center to Pearl Harbor, the
media are inciting Americans toward hatred and violence toward Muslims
everywhere, including in the U.S.,” Takaki added.

“One of the casualties of the attack on Pearl Harbor was the deprivation of
civil and human rights of Americans who were of Japanese ancestry,” said
Jack Herzig, a retired lieutenant colonel of the U.S. Army and a researcher
of Japanese American history.

“Now, some 60 years and several wars later, media reporters and
self-proclaimed ‘experts’ on international terrorism are only too quick to
identify Middle East organizations and individuals as responsible for
today’s strikes against the United States,” Herzig added.

Noted civil rights attorney Dale Minami also urged calm in the aftermath of
terror.

“The magnitude of this horrible attack is staggering and there are no words
which can capture the outrage we feel, nor words to express our sympathies
for the victims,” said Minami. “Yet we must be careful not to let the
emotions of the moment turn into hysteria against any group of people as the
United States did against Japanese Americans during World War II.”

Henry Suzuki of Gardena, Calif., was seven years old when he witnessed the
bombing of Pearl Harbor from Waipahu. Suzuki, now 67, said that while the
references to the 1941 attack makes him uneasy due to his own personal
experience, he was optimistic that the country was not going to target Arab
Americans as it had scapegoated Japanese Americans during World War II.

“I think we learned from World War II. There is not as much discrimination,”
said Suzuki, a retired engineer who worked alongside several Arab American
engineers. “Back then, there was segregation. But today we work together, we
know each other. Times are different.”

Yet those with an intricate knowledge of Japanese American history, and how
Arab Americans were targeted for concentration camps during the Gulf War,
give a warning for the danger for potential stereotyping.

When a federal building was bombed in 1995 in Oklahoma, people across the
nation immediately suspected Middle East terrorists as well.

They also say that Japanese Americans, having experienced such hysteria
firsthand, have a unique role to play.

“We who have witnessed the results of misplaced hostility of December 7,
1941, have the responsibility to confront those who find it only too
convenient to attack innocent people in our country for today’s tragedies,”
said Herzig, “simply because they or their parents came from Arab nations to
our country seeking the same goals as did our parents. One ‘evacuation’
under Executive Order 9066 was enough.”

“This is time for us, as Japanese Americans, to speak out against such
references,” Takaki said.

Martha Nakagawa contributed to this report.


--

Nichi Bei Times
http://www.nichibeitimes.com
Mailing address: P.O. Box 193098, San Francisco, CA 94119
Office address: 2211 Bush Street, San Francisco, CA 94115
Phone: (415) 921-6822 (editorial); (415) 921-6820 (business)
Fax: (415) 921-0770;
e-mail: nikkei@nichibeitimes.com (editorial); business@nichibeitimes.com
(business)

The award-winning Nichi Bei Times -- established in May of 1946 -- is the
oldest Japanese American bilingual daily newspaper in Northern California.
It is one of only three such remaining dailies in the continental United
States. In 1998, the Nichi Bei Times was awarded the first-ever Pioneer
Award from New California Media -- a consortium of more than 100 ethnic news
organizations. In 1999, Nichi Bei Times English Section Editor Kenji G.
Taguma was presented the Community Service Award from New California Media.
The Nichi Bei Times strives to be the "glue that holds the community
together" -- culturally, historically, socially, emotionally, spiritually
and politically.

[Elio]

God Bless America.

[blink]

Originally posted by utinni2
Has anyone heard from Ryan or any of the other NY people, I know I don't know you NY folks well at all but I'm still concerned just lemme' know what's up. I couldn't get on to Fort Myer yesterday which is right next to the Pentagon and also where I live. Anyway I went straight to my brothers house on Boling AFB and we heard the helicopters and F-16's all over the fuckin' place. Shit is crazy out here especially with all the Military bases, alright well hope everyone is ok.

Ryan and the rest of the NY robots (falcor, solipsism, paean, frogbelly, neku etc) are ok. my mom also just called this evening, seems like she couldn't call back earlier as all the lines are busy. thank god and thanks to everyone for their concern. I only hope that everyone else on this board is as lucky as me. peace.

[empanadamn]

Originally posted by SweetArse
It could be 5 or 6 burly Habibs with box-cutters.

what kind of shit is this? you're a straight ass, bitch-made mother fucker.

in response to all the finger pointing, i think its fucked. amerika just wants the comfort of feeling they know who did it. but after they do "find out", then what? what the fuck are we gonna do? bomb a bunch of innocent people? or what? it's fucking ridiculous.

already on my campus, there's anti-muslim sentiment being scrawl on students' dorm room doors...

god bless amerika.
________
ecigarettes (http://vaporizer.org/forum/electronic-cigarettes/)

[utinni2]

Human nature bro, people would much rather let their emotions run loose and readily acuse anyone, especially at whomever the most fingers are being pointed at. So many people are influenced by whatever is uttered from the media and create a frenzy from the hype. I honestly wish folks would calm themselves down and see how they are acting. Unfortunately it looks like people will act like children and cry until they get what they want. There's no way of getting through to some people, I wonder if they're conscience bothers them at all.

[Kenishiro]

Originally posted by empanadamn
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SweetArse
[B]
in response to all the finger pointing, i think its fucked. amerika just wants the comfort of feeling they know who did it. but after they do "find out", then what? what the fuck are we gonna do? bomb a bunch of innocent people? or what? it's fucking ridiculous.

already on my campus, there's anti-muslim sentiment being scrawl on students' dorm room doors...

god bless amerika.

sorry to hear about the anti-muslim sentiment.

but in response to your response to finger pointing, umm..duh...if someone fucked you over, you wanna know who did it and why. And you'd wanna prevent it again. It's not ridiculous. It's a natural response. I can see your side of the argument, but however my heart goes out to the thousands of innocent people killed - the people in the WTC, the people in the plane, the firefighters and the police officers who risked their lives rescuing people, the tourists who were probably visiting at the time. And if you really wanna look at it, a lot of those people working in the WTC weren't American! I was looking at the list of companies that were in the WTC, and there are some Asian companies and Euro companies.

[d@ m@n]

this is all so real, yet all unreal at the same time. just watching that footage of the planes crashing right into the builidings is just so unbelievable. it's ironic that last week i was watching two movies that had the same kind of scenes as yesterday which were armageddon and the siege. it's so disturbing how real this is this! =(

[empanadamn]

what's up with all these stupid fucking people standing around that building? if a pack of bomb squad folks drive up and run into a building, that should be a hint.
i would not be chilling around there trying to see what's up.

people are dumb.
________
vaporizer shop (http://vaporshop.com)

[Ryan]

first of all blink, its good to hear that your mother is ok, unfortunately as sol has mentioned the good news is getting drowned in all the badnews
i wasnt in NYC but i know too many people that were there thankfully they got out. shit man, my cousin was supposed to be in that building yesterday and i have 5 others who work in that area. theres still so many people that i want to know about but even now communication is fucking hectic.

on another note..kikaida/kamenrider also made it to NY safely. as he was getting off the plane thats when they announced that the airlines were getting shutdown. (gary, if this is inaccurate please correct me)


that habib comment was totally unfucking necessary. two of my roommates are formerly from the middle east or their parents were and its stupid fucking comments like that that help incite even more ignorant people to go around beating up any one who they think might have looked like the people that did this shit.

on other message boards there are tons of rumors and stories coming up about what transpired on those airplanes, and yes i do believe its totally possible to take over a plane with just knives. there have been reports of them straight up killing people to make examples, surprise attacks, bomb threats and lord knows what else in order for them to get into the cockpit.
as for planes getting shot down, i havent heard much. theres another unconfirmed report that the flight that crashed in PA was from the pilots. apparently they managed to call one of their wives and said something to the effect of 'we're going to die, but we're not going to let them do want they want us to do'
another report says that the pilot of the plane that crashed into the pentagon managed to dump a large amount of fuel before he was over taken...

[Ryan]

another thing..if you have time to do so, PLEASE donate blood..theres waiting lists all over the place , im pushed back til friday but they need all the help that they need

[archonemis]

This is utterly out of place, but I'm amazed that the buildings stood up to those planes. How much energy was absorbed by those buildings? That the planes didn't shear the buildings in half is amazing. What's more is they didn't see the other side. Only the explosions got to the other side.

The engineering of those buildings is quite incredible. The designers never thought that airplanes would crash into their buildings, so they didn't plan for such an event, but even without said planning those planes did nothing to the majority of those buildings (the fires, on the other hand, are a different story).

I'm very glad that the buildings stood up to the pummeling thewy got. How many lives were saved by the redundancies in those buildings? The engineering gave people time to leave. That's truly amazing to me.

[Edited by archonemis on 09-12-2001 at 10:41 AM]

[jen_er_ator]

here's something i got through email today, and thought it was a bit relevant to what's going on here, on the GR boards...

COMPASSION AND REVENGE

The attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are
occasions of great significance. They are opportunities for
you to feel inside, to find those parts of yourself that are
in fear, and to make the decision to move forward in your life
without fear. That is the challenge for each individual on
this planet today. The pursuit of external power ? the ability
to manipulate and control ? creates only violence and
destruction. The painful events in New York and Washington are
living examples of that reality.

The causal chain that created this violence is one in which
compassion and wisdom are absent. Are wisdom and compassion
present in you as you watch the television, and read the
papers? It is important to realize that you do not know all
that came to conclusion, or into karmic balance, as a result
of these events. Because you are not able to know all that can
be known about them, you are not in a position to judge them.

When you are able to look at the events of the Earth School
from this perspective, you will see clearly the central
importance of the role that you play in it. That role is this:
It is for you to decide what you will contribute to this world.
Many will be asking your opinion of these events. Each question
is an opportunity for you to contribute to the love that is in
the world or to the fear that is in the world. This is the same
opportunity that presents itself to you at each moment.

If you hate those who hate, you become like them. You add to the
violence and the destructive energy that now fills our world. As
you make the decision to see with clarity and compassion, you
will see that those who committed these acts of violence were in
extreme pain themselves, and that they were fueled by the
violent parts of ourselves ? the parts that judge without mercy,
strike in anger, and rejoice in the suffering of others. They
were our proxy representatives. If you can look with compassion
upon those who have suffered and those who have committed acts
of cruelty alike, then you will see that all are suffering. The
remedy for suffering is not to inflict more suffering.

This is an opportunity for a massive expression of compassion.
It is also an opportunity for a massive expression of revenge.
Which world do you intend to live in -- a world of revenge or a
world of compassion?

peace to all you robots and your families, i really hope that things turn out positive in regards to those who are still searching for their loved ones.

[SweetArse]

Originally posted by empanadamn
Originally posted by SweetArse
It could be 5 or 6 burly Habibs with box-cutters.

what kind of shit is this? you're a straight ass, bitch-made mother fucker.

in response to all the finger pointing, i think its fucked. amerika just wants the comfort of feeling they know who did it. but after they do "find out", then what? what the fuck are we gonna do? bomb a bunch of innocent people? or what? it's fucking ridiculous.

already on my campus, there's anti-muslim sentiment being scrawl on students' dorm room doors...

god bless amerika.

Aw geez. Words hurt.

What happened after Pearl Harbor? Japan got bombed to pieces and now they are a docile nation of toymaking cartoon lovers. We should be so lucky with whoever attacked us now. If it was a bunch of middle easterners who hijacked these planes, ya better believe I'm calling them habibs. How about thinking about the tragedy, and not what politically correct term I'm missing? Maybe I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. Maybe you people on the other coasts don't fully recognize the situation because there's no smoldering pile of ash visible in the distance. I admit, when the Oklahoma bombing occurred, I was looking for the sports scores. But as much as I have over-reacted against the primary suspects, it seems to me that some loungers have over-reacted with some kind of blame-the-victim mentality which I can't understand. If every single person in the WTC used the word Habib, did they still deserve this?

[Ryan]

SweetArse,
it seriously surprises me that you have the capacity to say something that ignorant..its not even about being politically correct, all that name calling is indicative of the type of BLIND HATE that a tragedy like this feeds off of

[Mikio4]

Originally posted by SweetArse What happened after Pearl Harbor? Japan got bombed to pieces and now they are a docile nation of toymaking cartoon lovers. We should be so lucky with whoever attacked us now. If it was a bunch of middle easterners who hijacked these planes, ya better believe I'm calling them habibs. How about thinking about the tragedy, and not what politically correct term I'm missing? Maybe I'm letting my emotions get the better of me. Maybe you people on the other coasts don't fully recognize the situation because there's no smoldering pile of ash visible in the distance. I admit, when the Oklahoma bombing occurred, I was looking for the sports scores. But as much as I have over-reacted against the primary suspects, it seems to me that some loungers have over-reacted with some kind of blame-the-victim mentality which I can't understand. If every single person in the WTC used the word Habib, did they still deserve this? [/B]


You seem to be having a logical breakdown here. Your action in using racist terms on the boards is a separate act from what happened at the WTF. One is not used to justify the other and condemning one is not approving the other. To suggest that one is no longer obligated to behave as a member of a civil society because tragedy has occurred is not accurate. Furthermore, there is no "blame the victim mentality" here, rather there is an anti-racist mentality here that doesn't toelrate racism no matter what the circumsatances are. Nobody suggested that there is any justification for what happened; what they have suggested is that there is no justification for bringing racism to the GR forums.

[Panthor]

Originally posted by shawgirl74
i am in fear for our rather large Muslim community here. this will be the "acceptable" racial profiling, and many are going to pay the price for ignorance. how many more innocent people will die or have their rights violated today? fuck this shit. two wrongs do not make a right...



oh, and when i say i stand by my fellow American citizens, i do not mean these fuckers.

I am going to play devils acvocate here Shaw, but racial profiling of people of middle eastern/south asian decent may very well have prevented this tragedy from occuring. Especially those students who dont live here but are just on temporary visas. The problem isnt just the profiling. The problem is the fact the middle eastern students in the United States on temporary student visas were throwing celebrations yesterday. Thats the problem. I have several middle eastern friends that have been profiled at the airport and one of them, who grew up in Yemen, has no problem with it because he is well aware of the possibility of shit like yesterday happening.

Now as far as the reaction of the USA. Unless you want to be afraid of going into govt buildings or flying than you better accept that the only way to deal with terrorists is violently. If whoever did this is allowed to get away with it unscathed, they will do again. Now I totally agree that we cant just go after anyone, but we HAVE to go after whoever did this act or national security will fall to shit. As far as a war is concerned, I highly doubt that this will result in war considering we have the backing of most of the middle east, all of south america, russia, japan, well essentially every country in the world. Hard to have a war when your enemy is not a country. Hell, even pakistan has backed us. Anyway I am done ranting.

[montyburnz]

Know any other good bulletin boards that are dealing with this issue? I'd like to read more first hand accounts.

[SweetArse]

Originally posted by Ryan
SweetArse,
it seriously surprises me that you have the capacity to say something that ignorant..its not even about being politically correct, all that name calling is indicative of the type of BLIND HATE that a tragedy like this feeds off of

You're right. I'm feeding off a blind hatred right now, and I apologize. I'm a bit restless. I'm gonna try to donate blood. On my way to work this morning, it was a terrible and poignant moment as we came over a bridge. Everyone in the car stood to look out the window only to see haze where there were once buildings. It's cheesy, but I keep thinking about the quotes at the end of Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing.

[johnny_sokko]

hey guys it is really great to hear that many of you and your families are safe

it was really stressfull for me yesterday, as im sure it was for many of you trying desprately to reach loved ones over overloaded phone lines to make sure they were safe

i woke up today feeling slightly better, more secure and comforted in the fact that all whom i cared for were safe

but i have just found out that my unlcle who is a firefighter and was one of the first companies on the scene is missing, in fact his entire company is.

the effects of yesterdays horrible events shall be felt for sometime to come ,

i applaude all the brave men a women who risked and gave their lives yesterday to help other human beings

please everyone, give blood, do not feel hatred to innocent people because their skin is brown,
and make sure to let you family and friend you love them.

[montyburnz]

Originally posted by Panthor
I am going to play devils acvocate here Shaw, but racial profiling of people of middle eastern/south asian decent may very well have prevented this tragedy from occuring. Especially those students who dont live here but are just on temporary visas. The problem isnt just the profiling....I have several middle eastern friends that have been profiled at the airport and one of them, who grew up in Yemen, has no problem with it because he is well aware of the possibility of shit like yesterday happening.
[/B]

I have to strongly disagree. Racial profiling is basically saying the if you're a member of ethnic group X or look different then you are automatically suspicious. That's not
logical, fair, or American. That's what they did to the Japanese Americans in WWII which led to the internment camps. Here's a bit of trivia: not one Japanese American was found to be a turncoat or spy for Imperial Japan in WWII.

I do support being cautious and vigiliant against terrorism.
I don't think your friend from Yemen was racially profiled since he comes from a country that supports terror groups.


The problem is the fact the middle eastern students in the United States on temporary student visas were throwing celebrations yesterday. [/B]

That is a really DANGEROUS thing to say unless you have proof. If you saw it with your own eyes or read about it in
a newspaper then, you can repeat it. I have a hard time believing anyone in the States, whoever they are, was celebrating. I heard similar sentiments on Howard Stern this morning...people calling in to the radio show were accusing the Arab Americans of celebrating in their New Jersey neighborhoods. They accused the arabs of being un-patriotic and not flying the flag. I don't believe any of it.

There were sporadic celebrations among West Bank Palestinians, but that's different that was overseas.

[ninjaKid]

Originally posted by Solipsism
There's a lot the media's not revealing. A friend in news media has told me that oversees they were calling the downed plane in Pittsburg as being shot down, although they may be refraining from doing so now. She also remarked at how timely those shots of Palestinians celebrating were.

that may be true . . . but you also have to take into account that a lot of times, the media cannot report everything they "know" until they have complete verification of their info. having worked at CNN for 2 years, i know many times we heard 20,000 different "facts" about high-profile situations (i was working the morning JFK Jr's plane crashed, and for almost all of the rash of school shootings from Columbine on) . . . we always tried to refrain from jumping the gun on any information unless it was backed up, preferably by our own correspondents.

of course, the bastards laid me off. i bet they wish i was there NOW . . . =p

-ad

[Willie D]

Just heard that the son of a family friend was missing and presumed dead. He was 20 years old and a waiter at the cafe in the top of one of the twin towers. Before anyone else writes any more bullshit about "well that's what you get for US hegemony" or other such crap just remember it could have been you.


I have always felt that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians was reprehensible but this sets their cause back years. Israel has been like the little bully in high school with the big friend. While the solution all along has been to force a peace between the two sides with both giving up a lot, it simply will not happen now. Panthor is right: giving in to terrorists encourages terrorism (see phillipines, columbia, Mexico where kiddnapping is a cottage industry).


A simple counterstrike even if killing Bin Laden will likely have no lasting impact. We can not got tit for tat like israel/mideast have for 50 year. An immense show of force may be the only way to show an adversary THIS is what happens to you and your loved when you perpetrate this sort of crime. At the very least a zero tolerance pre-emptive stike policy on extremist groups.


You're lucky I'm not the pres. Maybe I'll feel different tomorrow.

[Panthor]

Originally posted by montyburnz

I have to strongly disagree. Racial profiling is basically saying the if you're a member of ethnic group X or look different then you are automatically suspicious. That's not
logical, fair, or American. That's what they did to the Japanese Americans in WWII which led to the internment camps. Here's a bit of trivia: not one Japanese American was found to be a turncoat or spy for Imperial Japan in WWII.

I do support being cautious and vigiliant against terrorism.
I don't think your friend from Yemen was racially profiled since he comes from a country that supports terror groups.

[/B]

I didn't so much mean profiling based solely on race, but rather on threat. People that come to this country to study, esp. from the middle east and china, are in a threat profile catagory. It sucks, but that is a fact. It doesn't mean that every student that comes in from these areas wants to harm america, but it means that they, as a group, are more of a threat. They are more likely to be influenced by a radical leader and use the temporarily student visa to simply slip under the security radar and gain access to the US. And don't confuse my attitude about the issue with the internment camps of WWII. I dont believe I said that we should herd up all people of Arabic descent and put them in camps.

[sifuhotga]

just wanted to write and wish all you NY robots strength and good health in the difficult weeks and months ahead.

shock: Living in the middle of the Pacific, the events seem distant and surreal. I spent the day trying to wrap my head around what's happening... Must have been the same way for people on the East Coast when Pearl Harbor got attacked.

reaction: 60 years later, my grandparents still feel resentment for the way they were treated during WWII. If we can't educate the ignorant, we can still do our very best to avoid making the same mistakes ourselves.

One last thing: mewmew <-- No angry words for you. Just find help. Obviously you don't get the attention you need and i'd hate to think that being abused by people on this board is your idea of a good thing. Try to understand that people are dead; beautiful, innocent people that didn't deserve this.

[Mikio4]

Originally posted by ninjaKid that may be true . . . but you also have to take into account that a lot of times, the media cannot report everything they "know" until they have complete verification of their info. having worked at CNN for 2 years, i know many times we heard 20,000 different "facts" about high-profile situations (i was working the morning JFK Jr's plane crashed, and for almost all of the rash of school shootings from Columbine on) . . . we always tried to refrain from jumping the gun on any information unless it was backed up, preferably by our own correspondents.
[/B]

Like, say, the results of presidential elections?

[Mikio4]

Originally posted by Panthor
Originally posted by montyburnz

I have to strongly disagree. Racial profiling is basically saying the if you're a member of ethnic group X or look different then you are automatically suspicious. That's not
logical, fair, or American. That's what they did to the Japanese Americans in WWII which led to the internment camps. Here's a bit of trivia: not one Japanese American was found to be a turncoat or spy for Imperial Japan in WWII.

I do support being cautious and vigiliant against terrorism.
I don't think your friend from Yemen was racially profiled since he comes from a country that supports terror groups.



I didn't so much mean profiling based solely on race, but rather on threat. People that come to this country to study, esp. from the middle east and china, are in a threat profile catagory. It sucks, but that is a fact. It doesn't mean that every student that comes in from these areas wants to harm america, but it means that they, as a group, are more of a threat. They are more likely to be influenced by a radical leader and use the temporarily student visa to simply slip under the security radar and gain access to the US. And don't confuse my attitude about the issue with the internment camps of WWII. I dont believe I said that we should herd up all people of Arabic descent and put them in camps. [/B]

But by this logic the people who should be profiled and considered the greatest threat are problably white males who probably commit more violent crimes in this country than any others (certainly this is true historically). The whole problem with this thinking is that it is counter to everything that this country stands for and has fought to create and preserve for it's entire history.

[Simon Paradise]

as someone mentioned before in this thread, the pure human tragedy of this is completely overwhelming...I lay in bed last night and tried to imagine that many people dying at once and i couldn't grasp it...
GBushes speech was kind of uplifting just because from the news everything seemed to be falling apart and his words were very reassuring.
BUT i wish he had put more emphasis on the importance of keeping cool heads, trying to hold onto our rational sides. having not lost anyone close to me in the explosions i feel like a dickhead saying this because i know its almost impossible to get past feelings of hatred and revenge... but ive gotta plead with anyone reading this to please not give into the temptation and take out your anger on innocents, not to give into apocolyptic WWIII fantasies and start hording gas, food, and weapons... most of the arabic people in my neighborhood were afraid to even go to work today...

[poshintang]

my father was in the pentagon when it was attacked. the blast threw him up against a wall, but he was able to evacuate. ended up wandering on foot to old town alexandria and finally caught a bus to his house. when he got home my mom communicated to him the sad (but unrelated to yesterday's tragedy) news that his brother had died that day.

I've never felt this way before. I don't really know what to say. yesterday i was glued to the phones until i knew that my friends who live/work in new york managed to get home. I'm trying to track down long-lost friends who I know have parents that work in the pentagon. I've been vaccillating from normalcy to anger to panic ever since yesterday morning.

My condolences to anyone who lost family or friends in yesterday's attack. I..don't have anything else coherent to say.

[montyburnz]

Originally posted by Simon Paradise
as someone mentioned before in this thread, the pure human tragedy of this is completely overwhelming...I lay in bed last night and tried to imagine that many people dying at once and i couldn't grasp it...


I know what you mean. Whenever someone dies unexpectedly, I think about how they woke up that morning. We always think the day is going to be just like any other and then it isn't.

[Panthor]

Originally posted by Mikio4
Originally posted by Panthor
Originally posted by montyburnz

I have to strongly disagree. Racial profiling is basically saying the if you're a member of ethnic group X or look different then you are automatically suspicious. That's not
logical, fair, or American. That's what they did to the Japanese Americans in WWII which led to the internment camps. Here's a bit of trivia: not one Japanese American was found to be a turncoat or spy for Imperial Japan in WWII.

I do support being cautious and vigiliant against terrorism.
I don't think your friend from Yemen was racially profiled since he comes from a country that supports terror groups.



I didn't so much mean profiling based solely on race, but rather on threat. People that come to this country to study, esp. from the middle east and china, are in a threat profile catagory. It sucks, but that is a fact. It doesn't mean that every student that comes in from these areas wants to harm america, but it means that they, as a group, are more of a threat. They are more likely to be influenced by a radical leader and use the temporarily student visa to simply slip under the security radar and gain access to the US. And don't confuse my attitude about the issue with the internment camps of WWII. I dont believe I said that we should herd up all people of Arabic descent and put them in camps.

But by this logic the people who should be profiled and considered the greatest threat are problably white males who probably commit more violent crimes in this country than any others (certainly this is true historically). The whole problem with this thinking is that it is counter to everything that this country stands for and has fought to create and preserve for it's entire history. [/B]

You don't think that white people aren't profiled. You ever hear of Waco? That was profiling in the harshest sense. I am not suggesting radical profiling. I am saying that background checks should be done at places where security is essential. Right now any American that checks out a website about bombs or even buys "A Catcher in the Rye" is put in a file by the FBI. If someone comes into this country to get their pilots license, there is no bakcground check. That is how these terrorist slipped under the radar. I just think that security of this counrty should be beefed up. I guess my main beef is that there are cells of terrorists all over this country (both domestic and international) that can get away with this shit because the country is afraid to violate their human rights. What about the rights of all those who died and the families of people who died?

[jen_er_ator]

violation of human rights. exactly. i had to leave school early today because i was just so fed up with all the bullshit talk going on in each class.

one girl had the audacity to say that she doesn't understand why places here in michigan were shut down, because everything that happened was so far away, new york and d.c. and she didn't think that it affected her in any way.

another kid said that he didn't want his freedoms violated at the airports should they begin to check all carry on luggage, ect. WHAT ABOUT YOUR LIFE??? he was more concerned about his freedom of convenience than his life or the lives of others.

again, i hope you all are doing well, and that your family members and friends are ok.

[SHATTERSTARNYC]

IM TIRED OF THIS ALLREADY,I SAY WE TOSS ANY ARAB OUT AND BACK INTO THEIR COUNTRY AND LEAVE THEM THERE UNTIL WE BLOW THEM UP.I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND,MY CITY IS IN SHAMBLES,PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND LIKE THE WALKING DEAD,BLANK FACES.IM NOT WHITE,IM PUERTO RICAN,IM NOT A RACIST IM A REALIST ,TOSS EM OUT.
---------------------------------
U.S.A, U.S.A!!!!!!!!

[lotto]

Originally posted by SHATTERSTARNYC
IM TIRED OF THIS ALLREADY,I SAY WE TOSS ANY ARAB OUT AND BACK INTO THEIR COUNTRY AND LEAVE THEM THERE UNTIL WE BLOW THEM UP.I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND,MY CITY IS IN SHAMBLES,PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND LIKE THE WALKING DEAD,BLANK FACES.IM NOT WHITE,IM PUERTO RICAN,IM NOT A RACIST IM A REALIST ,TOSS EM OUT.
---------------------------------
U.S.A, U.S.A!!!!!!!!

you claim to not be a racist, yet you immediately assume that all people of middle eastern decent as co-conspirators of this tragedy. that makes a lot of sense.

[montyburnz]

Originally posted by SHATTERSTARNYC
IM TIRED OF THIS ALLREADY,I SAY WE TOSS ANY ARAB OUT AND BACK INTO THEIR COUNTRY AND LEAVE THEM THERE UNTIL WE BLOW THEM UP.I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND,MY CITY IS IN SHAMBLES,PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND LIKE THE WALKING DEAD,BLANK FACES.IM NOT WHITE,IM PUERTO RICAN,IM NOT A RACIST IM A REALIST ,TOSS EM OUT.
---------------------------------
U.S.A, U.S.A!!!!!!!!

You have EVERY right to be angry.

But, I don't agree with anything you just posted. It IS racist and it doesn't matter that you're Puerto Rican. You're letting the Terrorists WIN if you continue to feed that HATE. They win when Americans attack each other. They win when we rip up our own Constitution just to combat the
FEAR they created.

Turn that powerful anger into positive energy and do something constructive and help rebuild the city. Also,
turn off the CAPS.

[jen_er_ator]

shatterstarnyc -- i'm not going to even try to say that i understand how you must be feeling, or how you should be feeling right now. i understand the frustration, but please read this: (i posted this earlier, but it wouldn't hurt to post it again.)

COMPASSION AND REVENGE

The attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are
occasions of great significance. They are opportunities for
you to feel inside, to find those parts of yourself that are
in fear, and to make the decision to move forward in your life
without fear. That is the challenge for each individual on
this planet today. The pursuit of external power ? the ability
to manipulate and control ? creates only violence and
destruction. The painful events in New York and Washington are
living examples of that reality.

The causal chain that created this violence is one in which
compassion and wisdom are absent. Are wisdom and compassion
present in you as you watch the television, and read the
papers? It is important to realize that you do not know all
that came to conclusion, or into karmic balance, as a result
of these events. Because you are not able to know all that can
be known about them, you are not in a position to judge them.

When you are able to look at the events of the Earth School
from this perspective, you will see clearly the central
importance of the role that you play in it. That role is this:
It is for you to decide what you will contribute to this world.
Many will be asking your opinion of these events. Each question
is an opportunity for you to contribute to the love that is in
the world or to the fear that is in the world. This is the same
opportunity that presents itself to you at each moment.

If you hate those who hate, you become like them. You add to the
violence and the destructive energy that now fills our world. As
you make the decision to see with clarity and compassion, you
will see that those who committed these acts of violence were in
extreme pain themselves, and that they were fueled by the
violent parts of ourselves ? the parts that judge without mercy,
strike in anger, and rejoice in the suffering of others. They
were our proxy representatives. If you can look with compassion
upon those who have suffered and those who have committed acts
of cruelty alike, then you will see that all are suffering. The
remedy for suffering is not to inflict more suffering.

This is an opportunity for a massive expression of compassion.
It is also an opportunity for a massive expression of revenge.
Which world do you intend to live in -- a world of revenge or a
world of compassion?


i'm glad that you are ok, and i am truly sorry for what you and others have gone through and have to go through. try to realize strength through compassion of your own actions and feelings. i know it must sound stupid and cheesy to you, coming from someone who is watching from the outside, so to speak. but hate or irrational thoughts and feelings only feeds the flames of the fire.

peace to you and yours.

[Ryan]

shite man we just had a rally here at school an hour ago and its good to see rutgers this united as a community.

alot of this stems from an incident last night when a muslim student was beaten up simply for being muslim....
try to fucking justify that

[falcor]

Originally posted by SHATTERSTARNYC
IM NOT WHITE,IM PUERTO RICAN,IM NOT A RACIST IM A REALIST ,TOSS EM OUT.
---------------------------------
U.S.A, U.S.A!!!!!!!!


...just because you're not white doesn't make you not racist. i dunno where you got that ass backwards thinking from.

[SHATTERSTARNYC]

i knew what you guys were gunna say,im just angry right now.i wish this never happened and i want it to be over.
i celebrated my 24th birthday on monday,and the next day this?(my birthday sucked by the way)i know i sounded like a racist asshole,and honestly,i logged on just to erase what i posted before,cause i knew how stupid i sounded.anyway......thats it.

[fmstlr]

my two cents:

1. jen-> that article you posted, where did it come from?
Very Zen. The prose and language reminds me of the Dalai Lama's writings.

2. Although I also feel that mewmew's posts were inappropriate and insensitive, I do not feel it is our right (individual or collective) to stop him. We live in a country that protects free speech, PARTICULARLY those that are unpopular. Picking on people for their speech is no better than picking on people for their nationality or religion.

3. Mewmew-> it is your choice to maintain you relationship with others, I can't tell you what to do. Judging from your previous wittiness, I think you're a rather intelligent person, and I think you know when is the right time to hold back on your clowning. It's okay with me that you don't give a rat's ass about the recent events, but it is not necessary to rub it in everyone's face by forcing us to 'SEE' how 'don't care' you are.

[blink]

Originally posted by Solipsism
A link to a NY Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html

Sols, that was a really good article. here's a part of it:-


Khair Khana, a man selling fertilizer in a market, knew just a bit about the attack. He thought a plane had crashed into the White House. And he considered the perpetrators, whoever they are, to be "enemies of God," though he also felt "Americans should look into their hearts and minds about why someone would kill themselves and others" in such a way.

He had not thought much about an American retaliation against Afghanistan. When he did consider it, standing in a ramshackle collection of stalls, he shrugged and said: "Americans are powerful and can do anything they like without us stopping them."

Nearby, a tailor, Abdul Malik, saw God's justice in America's pain because, as he understands it, the United States has armed the Afghan resistance to fight against the Taliban. "So they at least now know how it feels in their own country," he said


before any of you gung-ho idiots out there think of obliterating an entire country for the sins of a few bastards, consider this :

have you ever experienced famine or see your loved ones die from starvation, RIGHT BEFORE YOU?

have you ever experienced the horrors of war for 20 plus years like some of the Afghans do?

have you ever experienced the hardship caused by unjust economic sanctions which at times, included medicine and thereby causing the death of loved ones and friends?

No? thought so...

[frogbelly]

Thanks to all of you for your concern about us NY Robots. And thanks to all for your calls and emails.
I didn't know anyone that was in the building but my heart goes out to those of you who have friends and family unaccounted for.

[phism]

Originally posted by archonemis
This is utterly out of place, but I'm amazed that the buildings stood up to those planes. How much energy was absorbed by those buildings? That the planes didn't shear the buildings in half is amazing. What's more is they didn't see the other side. Only the explosions got to the other side.

The engineering of those buildings is quite incredible. The designers never thought that airplanes would crash into their buildings, so they didn't plan for such an event, but even without said planning those planes did nothing to the majority of those buildings (the fires, on the other hand, are a different story).

I'm very glad that the buildings stood up to the pummeling thewy got. How many lives were saved by the redundancies in those buildings? The engineering gave people time to leave. That's truly amazing to me.

[Edited by archonemis on 09-12-2001 at 10:41 AM]

actually, i heard the engineer who redesigned it after the first bombing in 93 said something to the effect of 'they're strong enough to withstand a hit from a 747'...which they were, until they burned. maybe that's where they got the idea...to prove him wrong...or maybe just for the irony of it.

[phism]

Originally posted by SweetArse
If every single person in the WTC used the word Habib, did they still deserve this? [/B]

yes.

[neku74]

does anyone have any info on the bomb threat at the empire state building or the evacuation of penn station??? i saw on the news that someone made a threat at laguardia and people started running like crazy cuz they thought there was a bomb. they arrested someone and closed down the airport for the rest of the day.

[neku74]

i am sure about the Laguardia closing, i saw it on the news. a friend just got off of the phone and told me that the empire state building, met life building and bear stearns were all evacuated. these are all buildings in midtown, very close to where i and almost everyone else that doesn't work near the wtc work. does anyone know anything? i'm not trying to alarm anyone unnecessarily, but no one is talking about it on the news and i can't find out anything.

[Ricky]

I work in the garmet district and right now there is a bomb threat in penn station. They just evacuated Macy's and all the shops are closing up.

[Ryan]

that whole 14th street thing is out the window..basically the entire city is getting shut the hell down again..

[beefs2]

what's this about 14th street? i'm on 18th. i haven't heard yet. what's the update?

[angoraphobia]

if you guys can....please keep us posted....im at work....i dont have a radio.....and all i can do is go to cnn.com.....

[SHATTERSTARNYC]

this is far from over,things are going to get worse before they get better,prepare yourselves and your loved ones and get good with your god,all this thats happening makes you wonder about how we get so caught up in trivial bullshit like sports and even movies(sorry but its true),it makes you realize that things are messed up out there,and ....thats all

[Ryan]

i was just referring to how they siad that everything below 14th would be closed but these new bomb threats are around midtown so basically it seems like the whole city is gonna be shut down again

[beefs2]

i live in the west village and yesterday i tried to see how far downtown i could get. they stopped everyone at houston (only a few blocks from my apt). i think they're letting people down to canal if they live there, but not any further than that. everyone was just standing at the police blockades looking downtown, silent and crying. there was a volunteer who just got back from ground zero and she was telling how scary and horrible it was down there. she was crying real bad. i went to volunteer at chelsea piers and st. vincent's, but they just took my name and number and said they'd call. it's sad, but there's just not that much to do right now.

[neku74]

angora - i'm at work too. i'm listening to a live report from abc news live - go to yahoo's home page and try to find links to some live stuff if your connection can support it.
but honestly its not helping one fucking bit, cuz all they do is talk about the politics and shit. i'm just sitting here at my desk, i don't know where to go, what to do. they have evacuated buildings all over my area, they told us that we could go home. but i heard that the subways were down. that penn station was closed b/c there was a bomb scare. that grand central was closed. how am i supposed to get home? what is going on?????? do i just sit here? how can i get home? i am usually very calm and cool about things but i went out earlier and my entire office was outside or in the lobby, panicking.

[Ricky]

We just heard on radio that penn station is reopened

Originally posted by neku74
angora - i'm at work too. i'm listening to a live report from abc news live - go to yahoo's home page and try to find links to some live stuff if your connection can support it.
but honestly its not helping one fucking bit, cuz all they do is talk about the politics and shit. i'm just sitting here at my desk, i don't know where to go, what to do. they have evacuated buildings all over my area, they told us that we could go home. but i heard that the subways were down. that penn station was closed b/c there was a bomb scare. that grand central was closed. how am i supposed to get home? what is going on?????? do i just sit here? how can i get home? i am usually very calm and cool about things but i went out earlier and my entire office was outside or in the lobby, panicking.

[beefs2]

if you're at work. go to http://www.wabc.com and (you need realplayer) you can watch the news live.

[angoraphobia]

thank you....i will try that

[joetron2030]

I can't remember where I saw it. I'm sure it was in here somewhere. Anyways, the good and smart folks at http://www.snopes.com have debunked the recent round of nostradamus prophecies that abound:

http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

[phism]

i hate pride. i'm getting sick of this "god bless america" crap. because soon it's going to turn into "god smite afghanistan"...and people with their flags and shit. i'm supposed to wear red white and blue tomorrow at school, and i don't want to. because i don't think i'll be very proud of my country in the next few weeks, because i doubt our actions will be appropriate. i think i'll wear chinese colors or something completely unrelated. whatever.

hey 5.92,
there's a demonstration at mill creek park tomorrow (friday) at 4:30 i think, for peace. i dare you to go.

[neku74]

i don't know about the cab driver solip. but i will tell you that i have seen hacidic jews being harrassed on the street. i was also told by a friend's middle eastern girlfriend that on atlantic street, 3 busloads of white kids armed with baseball bats drove up to a group of indian people having a little picnic or some sort of family gathering outside and started beating them. i don't know the outcome, but this is surely horrible news. as i posted on another thread, someone already came up to me and my bf in park slope and started ranting about how "we let you foreigners in and you just start destroying the place". jesus. everyone please be careful and watch out for your middle eastern friends.
oh lord, i just heard about the 13 hijackers at jfk. whaaaaaattttt?????

[fmstlr]

Based on the posts, it seems that you east coast robots are hearing all sort of rumors about various things, causing you to be continually panicky (which is understandable).

Here on the west coast, it appears that the unconfirmed rumor type stories are being filtered out, and we are only getting (mostly) the fact-based ones.

Although some of the newscasts here are so shabby, they're only a hair above rumor mills.

[Asharak]

I don't know why, but for some reason, I'm getting this image of Hudson from the movie Aliens screaming "Game over, man! Game over!" while thinking about all this.

[angrykitty]

Originally posted by neku74
i don't know about the cab driver solip. but i will tell you that i have seen hacidic jews being harrassed on the street. i was also told by a friend's middle eastern girlfriend that on atlantic street, 3 busloads of white kids armed with baseball bats drove up to a group of indian people having a little picnic or some sort of family gathering outside and started beating them. i don't know the outcome, but this is surely horrible news. as i posted on another thread, someone already came up to me and my bf in park slope and started ranting about how "we let you foreigners in and you just start destroying the place". jesus. everyone please be careful and watch out for your middle eastern friends.
oh lord, i just heard about the 13 hijackers at jfk. whaaaaaattttt?????

i've been getting a lot weird looks here in LA. people are looking at me like i'm up to no good and will attack them at any second. i'm of asian descent and don't even come near looking like middle eastern. i think there is a perception of who is american and who is not american that is becoming more apparent in ugly ways. am i getting paranoid or is this happening to you other robots as well?

ps. thats fucked up about the kids with baseball bats, that's really stupid and sad.

[mAd oLe LiN]

fuck.

[archonemis]

Dammit, I wish I was bigger. I'd love to beat the shit out of idiots that would beat on a random family simply because of they way they look.

Well, speaking of strange happenings . . .

My friend who live a couple blocks from LAX was walking his friend to the church parking lot (which is 400 feet from his place) and when he got there he saw a brand new white, unmarked semi truck pull into the parking lot. A middle Eastern man simply walked out and kept going.

My friend was a bit freaked when he heard today that there was going to be a terrorist bombing or some such using a semi truck and explosives. I think they were probably unrelated, but he never did call the police. I think he should've. Even if it wasn't related, new, white, unmarked semis don't generally go to that parking lot (in fact I've never seen anything close to that happening there).

Keep your eyes peeled and watch out for crimes against fellow humans. If you see a beating of anyone call the police immediatly. As much as I'd like to join in and try to defend who's getting beaten, I'd prolly get my ass whooped. Maybe some of you could handle yourselves. If so give 'em one for me.

[5.92]

Everyone I see that is Arab American looks all sketched and apprehensive.
I'm very concerned about this and whenever someone comments negatively towards our fellow Americans I straight check their ass. My moms was the first person I had to talk shit to. Its ironic as she taught me tolerance and understanding as a child.
Anyway please be constructively vigilant towards ignorant hostility. It's easier for me to say since I'm not afraid to fight. If youre in danger, call the local police or come back with your people. The latter not being constructively vigilant.

[5.92]

T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.

[fmstlr]

Originally posted by 5.92
T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.

In the DNC protest in L.A. last year, some of the black bloc kids were wearing shirts that had 'I'm not a terrorist' and 'I'm not armed'.

[5.92]

Originally posted by fmstlr
Originally posted by 5.92
T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.

In the DNC protest in L.A. last year, some of the black bloc kids were wearing shirts that had 'I'm not a terrorist' and 'I'm not armed'.
Fuckin cool/smart! Do you know who made them?

[phism]

i saw a sexy middle eastern woman today. why would anyone be racist?

Originally posted by 5.92
T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.


hot! check this out!
<img>http://artfromtheheart1.tripod.com/images/viet-american.jpg</img>

[Edited by cheekymonkey on 09-16-2001 at 02:24 AM]

[empanadamn]

Originally posted by Waco Jesus
I don't know why, but for some reason, I'm getting this image of Hudson from the movie Aliens screaming "Game over, man! Game over!" while thinking about all this.

i like it when newt says, "they mostly come out at night... mostly."

________
honda cb400f (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_CB400F)

[phism]

Originally posted by cheekymonkey
Originally posted by 5.92
T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.


hot! check this out!
<img>http://artfromtheheart1.tripod.com/images/viet-american.jpg</img>

[Edited by cheekymonkey on 09-16-2001 at 02:24 AM]

i can't see it.
i'd like it if the helicopter picture said "murder weapon" under it or something.

[5.92]

Originally posted by cheekymonkey
Originally posted by 5.92
T-Shirts and stickers saying, "I'm not a terrorist."

I've sketched some shit of the NYC skyline with various substitutions; 2 arms giving the middle finger, 2 flowers etc.

I think the shirts should be made though.


hot! check this out!
<img>http://artfromtheheart1.tripod.com/images/viet-american.jpg</img>

[Edited by cheekymonkey on 09-16-2001 at 02:24 AM]
I cant see shiite either.

[angrykitty]

those are some amazing pics. it's really hard to believe that a handful of morons with nothing but some pilot training and knifes could cause so much destruction. call me anything you want, but i still get teary eyed when i think about the WTC. :(

has anybody been watching the special on NYC on PBS? its really good, and in a lot of ways the recent tragedy makes the show and city even more poignant.

[Ryan]

jeezus...it really DOES look like a warzone...

I can't believe I'm looking at photos of New York -- it still makes me feel sick. I live in LA -- and visited out there last April -- you would've never thought anything like that was possible.

(re: solipsims photo post)

[Mr Chink]

Originally posted by angrykitty
[B}

i've been getting a lot weird looks here in LA. people are looking at me like i'm up to no good and will attack them at any second. i'm of asian descent and don't even come near looking like middle eastern. i think there is a perception of who is american and who is not american that is becoming more apparent in ugly ways. am i getting paranoid or is this happening to you other robots as well?
[/B]

I live in Canada, and for the most part, the scare of the terroists have not taken hold here. So I have not felt any change in attitudes toward people that looks "foreign." Not personally anyways.

But in general, the "outsider" and "foreigner" feeling for Asian-americans is not new. For a good number of Asian americans that have been here for more then three generations, and are as american as apple pie, they still gets identified as being from "somewhere else," as opposed to plain old jersey.

I know that for many, my brother included, this has been a problem. I can imagine that it would be especially hard growing up that way. You don't feel different, but everyone insists on tell you you are.

My hope would be that this tragedy would make America unite more, and cancel out some of these perceived differences...

[Asharak]

Originally posted by Willie D
Originally posted by Waco Jesus
Originally posted by phism
i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

Agreed. Although it would have helped if our illustrious U$ government had never supported the Taliban in the first place. What the jingoistic, racist preppy white Republican dicks don't want to admit is that this tragedy is what happens when our mistakes come back to bite us in the ass.


The US did not support the taliban, but rather the Mujahadin during the Soviet-Afghan conflict. They are not the same. After the war the Taliban ended up filling the power vaccuum. Maybe helping Afghanistan drive out the Soviets was a mistake but it was a factor in the weakening and dissolution of the eastern bloc.

Probably not, but you can't say that there weren't any Mujahadin who didn't later go on to become part of the Taliban. Osama bin Laden was also supported by the CIA and he graciously funded the Afghan rebels, sometimes even participating in conflict. In one infamous and little-known incident, bin Laden and his men attacked a mixed-gender school and killed all the teachers. Murdering scum, no doubt, yet the United States government looked the other way, stupidly ignorant (and apathetic) of the fact that people capable of committing such atrocities could eventually bite the hand that feeds them, which they did last September 11th.

On a semi-related note, I'm saving whatever media I have (magazines, newspaper articles, etc.) on last month's terrorist attack for my 2-year-old nephew when he gets older, because I don't plan on having any children of my own to tell them about this horrible event in history. Who would want to bring a child into a world like this?

Originally posted by mewmew
DESTROY ALL BUILDINGS
I thought you were an asshole before but now I know for sure. How fucking insensitive can you be? I just read this thread for the first time and I cant believe that you passed jokes throughout while people were dying? Fucking loser. I would like to take you down there right now and force you to start picking up body parts and attend some of the thousands of funerals taking place here now. Make a joke out of that Mew. Make us laugh. Asshole.

[Asharak]

Originally posted by Willie D
Originally posted by Waco Jesus
Originally posted by phism
i'm getting sick of this "let's bomb the entire middle east" bullshit. today at school we didn't do anything but watch cnn. and i kept hearing that. fucking racist preppy white republican dicks. and on the news right after it happened they kept talking about the differences between christianity and islam and it pissed me off. even tactically, that's wrong. we'll end up killing civilians and pissing off a lot of other people that aren't responsible. plus, if we keep from doing that, it's not exactly waging war, because it's against a terrorist group, not another nation, unless a nation chooses to get involved. hopefully those taliban fucks stay out of it.

Agreed. Although it would have helped if our illustrious U$ government had never supported the Taliban in the first place. What the jingoistic, racist preppy white Republican dicks don't want to admit is that this tragedy is what happens when our mistakes come back to bite us in the ass.


The US did not support the taliban, but rather the Mujahadin during the Soviet-Afghan conflict. They are not the same. After the war the Taliban ended up filling the power vaccuum. Maybe helping Afghanistan drive out the Soviets was a mistake but it was a factor in the weakening and dissolution of the eastern bloc.


http://sg.news.yahoo.com/011007/1/1jz0k.html

[angrykitty]

Originally posted by SLING BLADE
Originally posted by mewmew
DESTROY ALL BUILDINGS
I thought you were an asshole before but now I know for sure. How fucking insensitive can you be? I just read this thread for the first time and I cant believe that you passed jokes throughout while people were dying? Fucking loser. I would like to take you down there right now and force you to start picking up body parts and attend some of the thousands of funerals taking place here now. Make a joke out of that Mew. Make us laugh. Asshole.

um...mewmew has already come forward and appoligized for the posts in this thread. personally, i like him and if you give him the chance his humour grows on you.

[amboy]

i actually went to ground zero yesterday, first walked from broadway and chambers west to greenwich, then back to broadway and down to ? 3 or 4 blocks south of chambers. pretty crazy. i was there the thursday before the bombing and for obvious reasons havent been down there since. i saw the tower in flames and one already collapsed, and saw all the people in the streets. anyways, its 4 weeks later, and still, all that destruction there. i saw that the frame of the atrium window was still standing, which i hadnt seen on tv, and i remember recently walking through that and seeing all the people hanging out there. i could see the borders sign, saw trinity church (former client at former job), saw the building where century 21 was, probably the three places i frequented the most down there.

it was weird... eerie ... a mass grave ... it was more destruction than i thought, all the broken out windows and wire cables everywhere. so much destruction. i guess there still arent words for me to really describe it or how i feel about it. got in a fight with someone who wanted to talk politics at the site... i just couldnt abastract the situation enough to even begin talking about us foreign policy. it was weird, too, all the tourists there, some buying tacky tourist items like the foam liberty spikes hats and the chinese vendors selling all sorts of souvenirs or the christians handing out billy graham flyers.

i walked by a group of people staring at something i couldnt see, and i kept wondering what they were looking at. then i realized that everybody was staring at where the twin towers used to be. since i only went there occasionally i didnt really know the area too well up close. its strange that so many people cant seem to place exactly where the twin towers used to be. the only place i really remember seeing it well was from thompson street in soho, on the way to work by that greek cafe snack. that was also where i saw it in flames, the last place i saw it. i walked down that street only last week, and it was the first time that i really noticed the buildings' absence from the skyline.

life for me in ny has been at a standstill the last 4 weeks. not numb, not routine, but some things seem a bit absurd and you wonder why you continue to try to act normal.

[Asharak]

Originally posted by angrykitty
Originally posted by SLING BLADE
Originally posted by mewmew
DESTROY ALL BUILDINGS
I thought you were an asshole before but now I know for sure. How fucking insensitive can you be? I just read this thread for the first time and I cant believe that you passed jokes throughout while people were dying? Fucking loser. I would like to take you down there right now and force you to start picking up body parts and attend some of the thousands of funerals taking place here now. Make a joke out of that Mew. Make us laugh. Asshole.

um...mewmew has already come forward and appoligized for the posts in this thread. personally, i like him and if you give him the chance his humour grows on you.

Agreed. I too have enjoyed some of his crass, sardonic posts.

[Edited by Waco Jesus on 10-08-2001 at 01:05 AM]

[angrykitty]

Originally posted by amboy
life for me in ny has been at a standstill the last 4 weeks. not numb, not routine, but some things seem a bit absurd and you wonder why you continue to try to act normal.

i read somewhere that 40% of the country is in a state of depression. before the 9/11 attack the country was at 8%.

for what it's worth, and i'm not saying your depressed, it's always good to talk about these thoughts you have to someone, like a friend or counselor.

it's really not easy but life goes on. hang in there amboy, things will get better.

[amboy]

thanks angrykitty. i dont think im clinically depressed, but of course, this is a very affecting situation, whether you show it to other people or not. thankfully, EVERYONE in new york city is talking about it and not pretending it didnt happen. this talk makes sense out of it, gives it narrative and some kind of structure so that you can deal with it better, and not be alone in your feelings about it.

today tried to go into manhattan on the L from brooklyn, probably a bomb threat... turns out it was closed, and all the buses were running behind... ended up walking into town across the williamsburgh bridge. there were all these soldiers at the manhattan end of the bridge by the fire station fully decked out. no guns though, but a humv and transport vehicles.

[Ryan]

post traumatic stress is expected to hit at least a third of the people who were directly involved with the sep11th attacks..who is to say how it will affect the population in general...

[neku74]

amboy: i also went down to ground zero two weeks ago and was completely speechless when i saw the extent of the damage that was done. some idiots were down there, posing for pictures with the wreckage in the background, it made me sick. you could see building frames just completely twisted over, reaching towards the ground. the lower part of the towers still stood erect but was completely melted and scorched beyond recognition except for the window frames. i also saw the borders sign and i loved that borders.

the stench is unbearable - everyone says that its the stench of rotting bodies but that is a smell that is unfamiliar to me so i couldn't quite identify it as such. there are still buildings covered in dust, and when you look in the windows, everything inside is steeped in dust as well. there are so many policement and national guards down there, it really does feel like a war zone.

i know what you mean - its not like we are personally traumatised by this incident but it has definitely affected everyone in ny. not a single day goes by where i don't think about that day. there are reminders everywhere. what really breaks my heart is the pictures of "missing" people - every time i see one my eyes water and i think about the loved ones that are left behind, grieving their loss.

[Ryan]

when i went down to DC, i was visiting a friend who had previously lived in NYC for the past 6 years. we used to meet each other at that borders and go to krispy kreme just to chill out..occasionally we'd sit outside and watch the skaters do their thing..i havent been to ground zero yet, im not sure if i plan to, i dont really know what good it would do me

[neku74]

funny ryan, i posted in the dreams and nightmares thread http://www.giantrobot.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=3352&pagenumber=4 about my happy memory going to borders and eating krispy kremes at the wtc too.

if you don't want to see the site, then you should definitely not go. its something that you have to be mentally and psychologically prepared for. personally, i went b/c i had to see it for myself, to put things in perspective.

[Chairman Mau]

hey, does anyone remember that link that was circulating where someone on a forum was posting "wait and see tomorrow morning" type things the day before?

anyone still have that or a link to a copy of it?

['jim]

I don't remember anything like that.

[FDM]

charlie sheen is perfectly sane.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rINKezJ_EYw

[ocd]

Originally posted by funkydrunknmonk
charlie sheen is perfectly sane.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rINKezJ_EYw That is total bullshit. 2 1/2 men does not get laughs.

[ja.net]

Originally posted by ocd
That is total bullshit. 2 1/2 men does not get laughs.

Indeed.

[will]

This is very worth a look, if it hasn't already been posted (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848)

[will]

Originally posted by will
This is very worth a look, if it hasn't already been posted (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848)

I repeat.

[fmstlr]

Originally posted by will
This is very worth a look, if it hasn't already been posted (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848)

thanks for the link.

[likeothers]

Originally posted by matu


you never know man. the government has done some really fucked up stuff in the past before... not on that scale of course... but you never know.

i suppose this is more of a subjective assessment but one could argue that the US gov't has in the past been involved in a lot more "fucked up" shit than if the 9/11 conspiracies were to be at least partly true.

the whole sandinista/nicaragua affair for instance.

[will]

Originally posted by fmstlr


thanks for the link.

No problem.

I now think that it is perfectly plausible that 9-11 was an inside job.

As for the Nicaraguan civil war, that was at least a classic case of the US/CIA fucking up other peoples' countries.

9-11 sought to, and did, murder and terrify (north) americans. I mean, that's treasonous murder and conspiracy on a scale never seen before in this country.

[angoraphobia]

Originally posted by will
This is very worth a look, if it hasn't already been posted (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848)

That was a lot of information to process...and a lot of great points. It just makes me wonder if a real investigation will ever be done? If the government is trying so hard to cover this up, will they not succeed in quelching all leads? Is/was there a process being put in place by the families of the deceased wherein they find out the truth?

This would be a pretty maniacal plot even for W.

[tangent23]

Operation Northwoods:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

lone gunmen ep 13: government sponsered 'terrorists' fly plane into WTC [aired 03/04/2001]
http://killtown.911review.org/lonegunmen.html

[Denstradamus]

Originally posted by tangent23

lone gunmen ep 13: government sponsered 'terrorists' fly plane into WTC [aired 03/04/2001]
http://killtown.911review.org/lonegunmen.html


yeah i watched that when it first aired. in the united states that was actually the pilot (introductory) episode of the lone gunmen.

man, i loved the lone gunmen.

[tangent23]

must've been wierd to watch it really happen a few months later..

['jim]

The only thing shocking about 9/11 is that shit like that doesn't happen all the time. No conspiracy is neccessary. Many people hate America for exellent reasons. We seem to give them new reasons every day.

But anyway, this conspiracy shit is like the supposed moon landing "hoax". Buncha guys--who are not experts in anything, and have no access to the actual shit you would need to make these claims--just sat around watching the news footage--not some top secret de-classified shit, but what was released to the public--and make outrageous paranoid claims.

Claims that make PERFECT sence in the context of a sci-fi/action movie/tv series. Please. The gov't doesn't NEED to cover-up shit. They can do whatever they want and nobody can do a goddamn thing. Blow up WTC so there's a reason to go to war and enact bullshit laws? They don't NEED a reason. PAY ATTENTION.

[Denstradamus]

Originally posted by tangent23
must've been wierd to watch it really happen a few months later..


it crossed my mind a little after 9/11, but I wasn't like "oh shit". i read an x-men comic that basically had the same plot. but honestly it was a little hazy since it was awhile back.


it must have been crazy for australian lone gunmen fans though. i heard that in Australia, that episode was aired six days before 9/11. that's crazy.

what suprises me the most is that no one ever talks about that episode anymore...

[Chairman Mau]

Originally posted by matu


that was on usenet. And I believe the person who posted it was investigated by the FBI. I remember reading that he had predicted all kinds of shit that never came true and was regarded as a total whackjob. I could be wrong, but I believe he posted more on the lines of "wait for next week" or something like that.


any links?

[syngeon]

I remember a Dale Brown book that ended with a 747 being almost flown into the Whitehouse by a terrorist.

Racial profile belgians now!!
________
Vaporizers (http://vaporizers.net/vaporizers)

[zakkusan]

it's so strange looking at all of this again