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View Full Version : Overwhelming, Crippling sense of hopelessness


charlos3000
07-25-2006, 02:23 AM
I've reached the point where i'm pretty much giving up hope that humanity will survive itself.

So, my response to it all is to cease caring about it, because i can't think of anything more worthwhile to do. the absurdity of the dialogue that we're forced to engage in, and the subsequent irrelevance of the things we say and do anyway make me feel that instead, i should focus my energies elsewhere.

I'm picking up my fiddle, and am going to find a good spot to watch it all burn from.

But we never answered the question "Why?" Why are we as a people worth saving? We still commit murder because of greed and spite and jealousy, and we still visit all of our sins upon our children. We refuse to accept the responsibility for anything we've done....we comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play God and then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.

35ft6
07-25-2006, 02:39 AM
That's the spirit!

kamenriderv3
07-25-2006, 02:49 AM
this is about the motorcycles?

charlos3000
07-25-2006, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by kamenriderv3
this is about the motorcycles?

yeah i got a really mean electrical gremlin that keeps messing shit up.

charlos3000
07-25-2006, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by 35ft6
That's the spirit!

gyeah

07-25-2006, 05:07 AM
odd.

i've never been at a more positive, optomistic point in my life.

hope things turn around for you charlos.

SDP
07-25-2006, 05:22 AM
Charlos, if I could do karaoke like you, I'd be a happy man.

But I know what you mean...sometimes I'll be right in the middle of a sentence and just think, "this is all BS. It would be better to just be quiet all the time." And of course, the usual world events are completely depressing.

Iago
07-25-2006, 05:30 AM
Gam zeh ya’avor

Iago
07-25-2006, 05:49 AM
Puns are the last refuge of the witless.

07-25-2006, 06:40 AM
and advertising copy writers

Iago
07-25-2006, 06:58 AM
Don't get me started.

FDM
07-25-2006, 07:18 AM
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/4841/hayguys8ua.jpg

ja.net
07-25-2006, 07:34 AM
join the peace corps, charlos

slackerbot
07-25-2006, 07:39 AM
i've lost faith in humanity years ago. we're all doomed.

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 07:44 AM
Since a young age (the Reagan mutual destruction era), I've felt that way and I never tried to make things better, but I'm steadfast about not making things worse. It's definitely achieveable.

07-25-2006, 07:45 AM
isn't that just apathy?

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 07:48 AM
no, I think apathy implies not caring about the consequences of your actions. That's how i see it, I might be wrong.

wonki wonki
07-25-2006, 07:50 AM
Is there really a qualitative difference between making things better and not making things worse?

yamchild
07-25-2006, 08:03 AM
^ it is if you believe that things in general are getting worse and you're one person standing against the tide as opposed to getting carrried away with it.

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 08:03 AM
e.g. I am not out there planting trees for the future, but I'd never cut down an existing tree for my own selfish reasons. does that count?

yamchild
07-25-2006, 08:04 AM
but still... maybe i'm being idealistic, but i think one should at least aim at bit higher for making things better.

Shaftoe
07-25-2006, 08:58 AM
Charlos, do not lose your glee!
The truth sets each one of us free
The sun is a star
And the earth is a car
That's wrapped around us (a big tree)

Egos and wills will not bend
Instead of working together we fend
But I had a dream
In which I saw the grand scheme:
We are destined to hasten the end

The end, of course, of humanity
Which may seem catastrophic calamity
But as death follows birth
We WILL leave this earth
And one day she'll regain her sweet sanity

We're a problem that cannot be solved
This'll never be fixed while man is involved
But balance shall find our orb
Our carbon will be reabsorbed
Then the bees become highly evolved

Skyscrapers full of sweet honey
Nectar-drops bartered as money
Then a bee scientist
Will say, "I'm tryin' this"
And make a nuke-stinger (won't that be funny!)

They'll go through the same shit that we did
"I didn't do it!" "Yes you did!" "No, she did!"
And then, in a blink,
THEY'LL be extinct
Another species will be self-defeated

This'll happen, o yes, dear brother
Then one day a bear will discover
It's aware of itself
Now with bees on the shelf
The way will be paved for another

Maybe it won't be bears or bees
Nevertheless, control will be seized
By hook, crook or knife
By some form of life
Till the sun dies, then it will all freeze

I swear, Charlos, I had a point -
Oh yeah! Drink a brew, smoke a joint
Sing a few songs
Have love that's quite strong
And find me a few more fucking words that rhyme with point and joint.

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by yamchild
but still... maybe i'm being idealistic, but i think one should at least aim at bit higher for making things better.

it's an extension to the outdoor etiquette of 'leave only footprints' (propagandized by the Sierra Club I think). To think that one can improve nature by acting upon it is egotistic and prone to abuse. To me, humanity and all that's around is nature, perverted.

When I died I hope I leave as little trace as possible.

Dr Jesus
07-25-2006, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by fmstlr


it's an extension to the outdoor etiquette of 'leave only footprints' (propagandized by the Sierra Club I think). To think that one can improve nature by acting upon it is egotistic and prone to abuse. To me, humanity and all that's around is nature, perverted.



:heart:

yamchild
07-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by fmstlr


it's an extension to the outdoor etiquette of 'leave only footprints' (propagandized by the Sierra Club I think). To think that one can improve nature by acting upon it is egotistic and prone to abuse. To me, humanity and all that's around is nature, perverted.

When I died I hope I leave as little trace as possible.

well to stretch your metaphor a little further, what i'm talking about is not just leaving only footprints, but maybe picking the garbage that some asshole left behind.

07-25-2006, 09:38 AM
"cleaner than you found it"

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by fmstlr
e.g. I am not out there planting trees for the future, but I'd never cut down an existing tree for my own selfish reasons. does that count?

i'm betting lots of trees died to support your modern life.

I don't think it's easy to have zero impact on the world.

SDP
07-25-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by puppy fields


i'm betting lots of trees died to support your modern life.

I don't think it's easy to have zero impact on the world.

Every organism has an impact on the world. Ours is greater because we want lots of things we don't really need.

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by SDP


Every organism has an impact on the world. Ours is greater because we want lots of things we don't really need.

The terrorists have won.

SDP
07-25-2006, 10:14 AM
So much of the winning people do is actually losing.

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 10:23 AM
I forget the exact quote or who said it, so I'm paraphrasing of sorts...

"It's ok not to be interested in politics. politics will eventually take an interest in you."

07-25-2006, 10:30 AM
everybody hurts












































sometimes

07-25-2006, 10:38 AM
things have been just like they are

since the beginning of time

get over it

http://www.alderbrooke.com/images/potty.jpg

wonki wonki
07-25-2006, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by yamchild


well to stretch your metaphor a little further, what i'm talking about is not just leaving only footprints, but maybe picking the garbage that some asshole left behind.

Yes, my point. Extend that further, and you realize so much of "doing good" is really undoing, negating, or preventing the evil of others.

If you value the idea of not cutting down a tree for a selfish reason as something "good" and not merely befitting your own sensibilities, you would naturally want to convince others to do so.

To insist that one is merely "not doing evil" while the world goes to shit is not a logically sustainable position. To continue with the tree metaphor, cutting down a tree has obvious derived benefits. If you have given up convincing others to stop cutting them down for selfish reasons, and believe that that is irreversible, you should in the end conclude that you yourself should cut down trees for self-benefit. Because it wouldn't matter.

To insist that not cutting down a tree is somehow to be valued, while not doing anything about the others around you, is worse than self-preservation. It is the preservation of a semblance of morality, not good for much else but as a fuel for indignation when the right to that indignation has been abdicated by the very act of giving up.

(I apologize for the tossings-about of terms like good, evil, etc. Shit's just easier to say.)

herrokitty
07-25-2006, 11:12 AM
entropy.

maybe you should join the peace core for a bit, like janet said. or maybe do join a Big Brothers & sisters program (or whatever it's called over there).

07-25-2006, 11:27 AM
this thread puts me in the mind of St. Francis of Assisi

Iago
07-25-2006, 11:28 AM
http://giantrobot.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=5332&highlight=Misanthropy
http://giantrobot.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=14559&highlight=misanthropic

Iago
07-25-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
this thread puts me in the mind of St. Francis of Assisi

That quack who spoke with animals?

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 11:31 AM
...

isn't there a phrase..."Bad things happen when good people do nothing"?

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 11:32 AM
is it possible to do anything if one were to have "Overwhelming, Crippling sense of hopelessness"?

I mean...if you can go shopping...it can't be that bad.

charlos3000
07-25-2006, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by puppy fields
is it possible to do anything if one were to have "Overwhelming, Crippling sense of hopelessness"?

I mean...if you can go shopping...it can't be that bad.

hmm. that's a good point.

let's call it an overwhelming, debilitating sense of hopelessness.

it's not so much sadness that's getting me, it's fatigue. like when you run out of patience with your friend who's a terrible drunk and gets into fights and makes out with questionable people, but can't stop getting drunk. at some point you realize that you don't have the energy to maintain your investment.

kamenriderv3
07-25-2006, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by yamchild
^ it is if you believe that things in general are getting worse and you're one person standing against the tide as opposed to getting carrried away with it.

superman!

Shaftoe
07-25-2006, 12:42 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/absolutami/showersign.jpg

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 12:44 PM
if I add 'to the best of my ability'* to everything I say, am I covered?












*I bought that cop out from ebay yesterday.

ocd
07-25-2006, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Shaftoe
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/absolutami/showersign.jpg :'(

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by wonki wonki

"doing good" is really undoing, negating, or preventing the evil of others.


This is a very dangerous position to take, considering human nature. Abortion clinic bombers comes to mind.

When people start thinking that they know (KNOW) what is best, shit is not far from the fan.

I'd prefer people to live in cautious uncertainty, like squirrels. j/k

kamenriderv3
07-25-2006, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by charlos3000


yeah i got a really mean electrical gremlin that keeps messing shit up.

that's overwhelming and crippling for the bike.

wonki wonki
07-25-2006, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by fmstlr


This is a very dangerous position to take, considering human nature. Abortion clinic bombers comes to mind.

When people start thinking that they know (KNOW) what is best, shit is not far from the fan.

I'd prefer people to live in cautious uncertainty, like squirrels. j/k


Dangerous it may be, that is the position you, I, and many others take on a day-to-day basis.

So you're saying, while you may feel that cutting down trees (to again go back to the tired metaphor) might be a bad thing to do, you haven't quite convinced yourself of the validity of your feelings to then influence others to do as you do?

C'mon, we both know that's not what you were saying.

35ft6
07-25-2006, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by SDP
Charlos, if I could do karaoke like you, I'd be a happy man.

But I know what you mean...sometimes I'll be right in the middle of a sentence and just think, "this is all BS. It would be better to just be quiet all the time." I understand how Charlos feels, but I think it's just a phase and the existence of this thread proves that he hasn't quite given up yet. I think the danger is when a person romanticizes their feeling of being overwhelmed. An example, sometimes I cry when I see commercials asking me to send money to provide food, medicine, and maybe even an education for some brown little person who lives thousands of miles away from me and most likely isn't as cute as the brown person used in the ad. There have been times where I feel like I've done good for the world simply by crying alone in my apartment, that I've proven what a good person I am, and that's enough. And then I wonder if I'm crying for the kid or if I'm crying over what a great person I am, the tragedy of such a good person/me having to live in such a cruel world. I'm probably projecting here but I feel like most of the people who say they're giving up, that the world is hopelessly lost, haven't even DONE ANYTHING TO TRY TO CHANGE SHIT.

edit: in general, this is the problem with the left... the right are great at banding together over 1 or 2 shared beliefs... the left seems to have a gazillion different agendas and a lot of us think that talking about how stupid, say, the Republicans are is enough... we don't actually DO anything... I'm definitely guilty of this...

It's not like they've committed 30 years of their life to actually addressing the problems that mean the most to them, trying to affect change by whatever means necessary, and then at the end of those years deciding there's nothing they could do and that they've accomplished very little considering how much they WANTED to accomplish -- what I don't get is when people like us, who are relatively young, throw in the towel when they haven't even stepped into the ring yet. It's some kind of fashion statement maybe but it's not really a position I can take seriously.

Okay, so now I just donate money to places. $50 dollars here and there. I figure I might spend that much at a bar on any given night so might as well give it to UNICEF, CARE, or whoever. I've pretty much lost track. I check out their literature to see how much of my donation goes to operating costs and if the percentage seems reasonable, I write a check. So I'm still not doing that much but I'm not letting myself the hook as easily. I figure crying about it, and posting on message boards, is maybe better than nothing for me as far as my conscience goes, but it doesn't really help the people I'm crying for. And, again, am I crying for them or for me. By sending that check, somebody's getting helped either way.

And so check out the graphic images of the people in Lebanon. We're lucky to have lives so good that we can have an existential crisis on Tuesday, then go have dinner and laugh with friends on Saturday. And so on.

35ft6
07-25-2006, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by fmstlr

I'd prefer people to live in cautious uncertainty, like squirrels. j/k This would be great, I guess, if everybody agreed to these terms. But like you said, "human nature." The bad people win when the best of us are being too relativistic to do anything to stop them.

Aaron
07-25-2006, 01:55 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but http://www.charitynavigator.org/ rates charities on how efficiently they run.
You can use it to decide who to donate to.

I'm personally not one to affect change on a global scale. I know my limitations and I'm selfish.
I try to affect change on a personal level and hope that it spreads from there.
I think the biggest change I can personally make is to give more to charities I believe in.

slackerbot
07-25-2006, 01:57 PM
maybe some people get a sense of hopelessness because the problem is overwhelming? or it seems like a lost cause?

Iago
07-25-2006, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by wonki wonki

Cutting down trees (to again go back to the tired metaphor)

http://www.pixel.fr/diaporama/bn/074.jpg

fmstlr
07-25-2006, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by wonki wonki



Dangerous it may be, that is the position you, I, and many others take on a day-to-day basis.

So you're saying, while you may feel that cutting down trees (to again go back to the tired metaphor) might be a bad thing to do, you haven't quite convinced yourself of the validity of your feelings to then influence others to do as you do?

C'mon, we both know that's not what you were saying.

I could leave only footprints in others' mind, but I don't see that influencing them is my goal. I like to let others make up their own mind. I certainly hope for it but if I don't actively plan for it.

I don't have the healthiest outlook in life, so this discussion might not go anywhere productive.

Iago
07-25-2006, 02:02 PM
http://www.posterpage.ch/winners/pari_01/p001030s.jpg

http://www.lukova.net/

ocd
07-25-2006, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Iago
http://www.posterpage.ch/winners/pari_01/p001030s.jpg

http://www.lukova.net/ Did he (she?) recently do some work for Amnesty International?

Iago
07-25-2006, 02:29 PM
Luba Lukova's a she. From Bulgaria, now in New York, and along with James Victore, one of the most potent political and conceptual poster designers around. Not sure if she did any work for Amnesty International, but that'd be right up her alley.

ocd
07-25-2006, 02:38 PM
Thanks for the info, I'll look into it more later.

puppy fields
07-25-2006, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by slackerbot
maybe some people get a sense of hopelessness because the problem is overwhelming? or it seems like a lost cause?

i think people just feel disconnected from one and another.

it's easier to find common interests when things are really bad, up close, and in your daily life. like how friendships are formed in the workplace because everybody hates the boss.

35ft6
07-25-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Aaron

I'm personally not one to affect change on a global scale. I know my limitations and I'm selfish.
I try to affect change on a personal level and hope that it spreads from there.
I think the biggest change I can personally make is to give more to charities I believe in. Originally posted by slackerbot
maybe some people get a sense of hopelessness because the problem is overwhelming? or it seems like a lost cause? Noam Chomsky says/thinks that this is how the people causing the problems WANT you to feel. 1), that one person can't make a difference, 2), that the problem is hopeless, and 3) the best way to deal with things is to go about your life, do well at your job, and express yourself by the things and ways in which you spend money. They just want you to be as uninvolved in the political and decision making process as possible, distracted by the feeling of empowerment you have as a dutiful consumer with so many choices.

Aaron
07-25-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by 35ft6
Noam Chomsky says/thinks that this is how the people causing the problems WANT you to feel. 1), that one person can't make a difference, 2), that the problem is hopeless, and 3) the best way to deal with things is to go about your life, do well at your job, and express yourself by the things and ways in which you spend money. They just want you to be as uninvolved in the political and decision making process as possible, distracted by the feeling of empowerment you have as a dutiful consumer with so many choices.

I'm not saying one person can't make a difference, I'm just not that one person.
I'm not sure how you got from what I said to being a consumerist and being uninvolved in the political process.

35ft6
07-25-2006, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Aaron


I'm not saying one person can't make a difference, I'm just not that one person.
I'm not sure how you got from what I said to being a consumerist and being uninvolved in the political process. What you said was just a springboard for me to go on a Chomsky rant. The entire post wasn't directed at you. Just thinking out loud. Christ knows I'm not doing much.

grandpa_shig
07-25-2006, 05:30 PM
you want a purpose in life?

FIND ME THIS

http://www.giantrobot.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=36524

itll solve all my problems. i mean your problems.

atomicscissors
07-25-2006, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by 35ft6
sometimes I cry when I see commercials asking me to send money to provide food, medicine, and maybe even an education for some brown little person who lives thousands of miles away from me and most likely isn't as cute as the brown person used in the ad.

Thank you.

I thought I was the only person who did cried over that stuff.

randall fairbrook
07-25-2006, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by charlos3000
I've reached the point where i'm pretty much giving up hope that humanity will survive itself.

So, my response to it all is to cease caring about it, because i can't think of anything more worthwhile to do. the absurdity of the dialogue that we're forced to engage in, and the subsequent irrelevance of the things we say and do anyway make me feel that instead, i should focus my energies elsewhere.

I'm picking up my fiddle, and am going to find a good spot to watch it all burn from.




it is just the lack of air conditioning....it will pass...

35ft6
07-26-2006, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by atomicscissors


Thank you.

I thought I was the only person who did cried over that stuff. I think a lot of bots cry over that shit. It's sad shit...

07-26-2006, 06:36 AM
people like that are only hundreds of miles away,

even tens of miles, not thousands,

but nobody cares or makes commercials.

puppy fields
07-26-2006, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by atomiclotusbox
people like that are only hundreds of miles away,

even tens of miles, not thousands,

but nobody cares or makes commercials.

that's cause...in america, if you're poor, you deserved it.

07-26-2006, 08:56 AM
and if you're rich, you didn't

puppy fields
07-26-2006, 09:04 AM
no wonder we're so depressed.

sanjay
07-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by randall fairbrook



it is just the lack of air conditioning....it will pass...

sometimes wisdom finds an unlikely messenger...

Garlic
07-26-2006, 12:11 PM
I don't know if this helps, but having a sense of humor about yourself, the absurdity of life, of being human -everything, really makes a difference. At least for me. I was one of those serious kids with huge eyes that didnt really have a sense of humor. Only developed one later in life. Maybe drugs helped with that.

Garlic
07-26-2006, 12:30 PM
Is true, but how you choose to react to what fate throws is up to you. Not everyone is capable of laughing at overwhelming situations.

Garlic
07-26-2006, 12:54 PM
I've read somewhere that it's only madness that can keep us sane in some situations.

It's hard to judge levels of madness and what constitutes being mentally handicapped...besides the obvious batshit crazy manson/dahmer types I think theres a fine line everyone treads.

Jack
07-26-2006, 01:22 PM
The only cure for depression is Ska.

35ft6
07-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Where's Happy when you need him.

Dr Jesus
07-26-2006, 02:39 PM
You guy's think you've got it bad. I just totaled my new car & i live in LA. I'm fucked.

35ft6
07-26-2006, 03:00 PM
^ that sucks. even worse is if your wallet flew out during the collision and disappeared down a drain

puppy fields
07-26-2006, 03:45 PM
ever worserer if you lived in Baghdad.

Jack
07-26-2006, 03:46 PM
even worsererer if you were getting head at the time, but the shock of totalling the car caused her jaw to clamp shut in shock, and remain that way for four hours.

randall fairbrook
07-26-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by 35ft6
Where's Happy when you need him.

probably on another message board making fun of 9/11 victims or posting pictures of hitler or washing his hands over and over and over again...

randall fairbrook
07-26-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by puppy fields
ever worserer if you lived in Baghdad.


even worse if you were a pregnant black teenager...

07-27-2006, 05:24 AM
there ain't no cure for the summer time blues

randall fairbrook
07-27-2006, 05:33 PM
http://www.giantrobot.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&postid=1090990#post1090990

atomicscissors
07-27-2006, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Dr Jesus
You guy's think you've got it bad. I just totaled my new car & i live in LA. I'm fucked.

Dang. Sorry to hear that, bro. I know you work around Northridge/Chatsworth, but where do you live?

Dr Jesus
07-28-2006, 10:42 AM
Northridge. I got a ride to work, but still it's like being 14 years old again. :(

FDM
07-28-2006, 10:50 AM
THERE IS NO GOD. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5223520.stm)

ocd
07-28-2006, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by funkydrunknmonk
THERE IS NO GOD. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5223520.stm) :( :( :( :( :(